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Has the wackosphere gone nuts over the Giffords shooting yet?

Travis

Misanthrope of the Mountains
Travis
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
24,133
I'm not up for it at the moment but someone needs to monitor the conspiranoid web forums to see how they're handling the shooting of congresswoman Giffords and Federal Judge Rolls. There is a good chance the shooter came from their extended family and information they possess on this might be interesting.
 
False flag

I've already seen one "Manchurian Candidate" reference on Youtube.

The shooter's (probable) Youtube videos talk about "mind control" and "you control the grammar" and how he is starting a new currency. All that reminded me a bit of the Freemen nonsense.
 
As more evidence comes out about this nutjob, it looks like there is much support to the idea that he was a "sovereign citizen"/"freeman on the land" type of woo - something we have of course covered a lot on the JREF conspiracy forums.

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/01/09/...ls-on-gabrielle-giffords-alleged-shooter.html

Of course, the conspiracy theorists will be quick to try to act like this is YET ANOTHER conspiracy kook who really is just a government plant and really there is no evidence that belief in this stuff makes people batty and do bad things. How many more shootings and assassinations will we have to go through where the perpetrators CLEARLY bought whole sale into vast portions of conspiracy theory will we need to have before the correlation is enough for the conspiracy theorists?

Oh I know: Never, because they can't handle the fact that the crap they are spewing is literally causing people to assassinate politicians*.

*Note: I'm not saying that there is a direct connection here and that every nutjob who buys conspiracy theories wholesale is going to kill people. What I AM saying is that there is more than enough evidence to suggest that belief in this stuff impacts people are already mentally unstable. The conspiracy community creates an echo chamber like environment on the web where conspiracy theorists support their ideas no matter how kooky they get and this gives them the foundation to eventually commit acts like this.
 
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LightinDarkness said:
Oh I know: Never, because they can't handle the fact that the crap they are spewing is literally causing people to assassinate politicians.
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And Marilyn Manson caused Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold to shoot up Columbine.

*Note: I'm not saying that there is a direct connection here and that every nutjob who buys conspiracy theories wholesale is going to kill people. What I AM saying is that there is more than enough evidence to suggest that belief in this stuff impacts people are already mentally unstable. The conspiracy community creates an echo chamber like environment on the web where conspiracy theorists support their ideas no matter how kooky they get and this gives them the foundation to eventually commit acts like this.
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Actually, that is exactly what you are saying... and wishing... without any evidence. But whatever.
 
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Nothing in this world just happens anymore. It is all a false flag.

I remember when that plane flew into the building in Austin TX and right away people (nutjobs) claimed it was a distraction and the guy was a government plant.
 
LightinDarkness said:
Of course, the conspiracy theorists will be quick to try to act like this is YET ANOTHER conspiracy kook who really is just a government plant and really there is no evidence that belief in this stuff makes people batty and do bad things. How many more shootings and assassinations will we have to go through where the perpetrators CLEARLY bought whole sale into vast portions of conspiracy theory will we need to have before the correlation is enough for the conspiracy theorists?
Click to expand...


This is one of the things I find the most... "interesting" about conspiracy theorists. They'll talk the talk ("take the fight to The Man", "time for a revolution", etc.), but as soon as someone walks the walk, they piss themselves, hide under the covers and whimper about how so-and-so was a plant meant to make them look bad.

The anti-government types do this with Timothy McVeigh. Where they should have seen the OKC bombing as the "first" shot in the war against the government and risen up in support, they instead curled up into a ball and threw McVeigh under the bus.

I think most conspiracy theorists are subconsciously terrified of the personal consequences of their delusions, which is why they do nothing more than babble away on the Internet. They want to be the snowflake that starts the avalanche, but at the same time they want the full force of the avalanche backing them up from the very beginning. They also want to hide amongst the crowd. None of these conspiracy theorists want to stand out, which tends to make them more of a sheep than anyone they throw that label at.
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
This is one of the things I find the most... "interesting" about conspiracy theorists. They'll talk the talk ("take the fight to The Man", "time for a revolution", etc.), but as soon as someone walks the walk, they piss themselves, hide under the covers and whimper about how so-and-so was a plant meant to make them look bad.

The anti-government types do this with Timothy McVeigh. Where they should have seen the OKC bombing as the "first" shot in the war against the government and risen up in support, they instead curled up into a ball and threw McVeigh under the bus.

I think most conspiracy theorists are subconsciously terrified of the personal consequences of their delusions, which is why they do nothing more than babble away on the Internet. They want to be the snowflake that starts the avalanche, but at the same time they want the full force of the avalanche backing them up from the very beginning. They also want to hide amongst the crowd. None of these conspiracy theorists want to stand out, which tends to make them more of a sheep than anyone they throw that label at.
Click to expand...

I've noticed this too. It'd be worthwhile to ask them what the difference would be from a plant and an actual nutter carrying out their ideology?
 
Just heard on the radio that the child who was killed was born Sept.11th. Expect that to be plastered everywhere true or not.:(
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
I think most conspiracy theorists are subconsciously terrified of the personal consequences of their delusions, which is why they do nothing more than babble away on the Internet. They want to be the snowflake that starts the avalanche, but at the same time they want the full force of the avalanche backing them up from the very beginning. They also want to hide amongst the crowd. None of these conspiracy theorists want to stand out, which tends to make them more of a sheep than anyone they throw that label at.
Click to expand...

I think your right on this - it demonstrates that the conspiracy community is all bark and no bite. Which is a good thing, actually, since there is no need for senseless violence based on myths that have no relationship to reality.

The automatic conspiracy kook response to this EVERY time someone with a conspiracy world view shoots someone (and its been happening quite a bit over the past decade) is immediately:

(1) Its a false flag!
(2) Anyone who points out that the mounting evidence that a conspiracy world view is a major contributor to the violence is labeled as a shill and/or is told that they must be saying that all conspiracy theorists are violent nutbars instead of peaceful nutbars.

Yet if they really believe any of this were really true, they should be cheering this violence - its an attack against the evil NWO, after all. That they go running shows that for conspiracy theorists its more about "being special" - even they don't really believe some of the crap they spew. But the evidence is there, and it is mounting - theres a reason why so many of these shootings are connected to people who believe in conspiracy theory propaganda: because whether the CTers admit it or not, if they take their worldview to its conclusion this sort of violence is what you get.
 
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LightinDarkness said:
As more evidence comes out about this nutjob, it looks like there is much support to the idea that he was a "sovereign citizen"/"freeman on the land" type of woo - something we have of course covered a lot on the JREF conspiracy forums.

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/01/09/...ls-on-gabrielle-giffords-alleged-shooter.html

Of course, the conspiracy theorists will be quick to try to act like this is YET ANOTHER conspiracy kook who really is just a government plant and really there is no evidence that belief in this stuff makes people batty and do bad things. How many more shootings and assassinations will we have to go through where the perpetrators CLEARLY bought whole sale into vast portions of conspiracy theory will we need to have before the correlation is enough for the conspiracy theorists?

Oh I know: Never, because they can't handle the fact that the crap they are spewing is literally causing people to assassinate politicians*.

*Note: I'm not saying that there is a direct connection here and that every nutjob who buys conspiracy theories wholesale is going to kill people. What I AM saying is that there is more than enough evidence to suggest that belief in this stuff impacts people are already mentally unstable. The conspiracy community creates an echo chamber like environment on the web where conspiracy theorists support their ideas no matter how kooky they get and this gives them the foundation to eventually commit acts like this.
Click to expand...

The evidence is adding up to suggest the shooter imported some Sovereign Citizen' ideas into his own philosophy. He doesn't believe in the currency because it's not backed by gold / silver. He thinks the Constitution does apply to him & is treasonous. The gibberish about grammar is reminiscent of the 'teachings' of David Wynn Miller.

I doubt he's a full blooded sovereign citizen but I wouldn't be surprised if he had viewed sovereign citizen websites. We'll know for sure when the matter comes to trial. Expect a wacky defence (not that it'll make any difference - he's booked himself a one way ticket to death row)
 
gtm said:
The evidence is adding up to suggest the shooter imported some Sovereign Citizen' ideas into his own philosophy. He doesn't believe in the currency because it's not backed by gold / silver. He thinks the Constitution does apply to him & is treasonous. The gibberish about grammar is reminiscent of the 'teachings' of David Wynn Miller.
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I had to look up David Wynn Miller.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wynn_Miller
My reaction?...........WTF???????
 
Accidental Martyr said:
I had to look up David Wynn Miller.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wynn_Miller
My reaction?...........WTF???????
Click to expand...


I'd never heard of ': David-Wynn: Miller.' either, but that's got to be the funniest wiki page I've read. I think the 'sovereign citizen/freeloader on the land' stuff may be even more entertaining than the David Icke reptilian orgies.

ETA Appropriately enough, when adding the colon at the start of Miller's name it produces a smilie. . .
 
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LightinDarkness said:
(2) Anyone who points out that the mounting evidence? that a conspiracy world view is a major contributor? to the violence is labeled as a shill and/or is told that they must be saying that all conspiracy theorists are violent nutbars instead of peaceful nutbars.
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Mounting evidence? Can I see it, please?

MAJOR contribution? Oh yeah? Out of all the mass shootings, stabbing, etc, can you prove that even more than 10% had conspiracy worldviews? No. But you sure wish it were so.

More people are killed every year in random violence because God told them to do it than because they believe in conspiracies.
I doubt he's a full blooded sovereign citizen but I wouldn't be surprised if he had viewed sovereign citizen websites.
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So what? How in the hell are websites with crazy ideas at fault?

he also talked about dates, and how it should be 1998743982423986923843 BCE.

Someone tell the timecube website owner his site is dangerous and inciting psychopaths.

Fact is, you all want so badly to pin this on CTers because you hate CTers. Of course, you'll deny it, and fall back on your skepticism credentials. It's all logical conclusion to you, because you are so used to looking through your little spiteful lenses you forgot what the real world looks like.
 
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UWdude said:
Mounting evidence? Can I see it, please?

MAJOR contribution? Oh yeah? Out of all the mass shootings, stabbing, etc, can you prove that even more than 10% had conspiracy worldviews? No. But you sure wish it were so.

More people are killed every year in random violence because God told them to do it than because they believe in conspiracies.


So what? How in the hell are websites with crazy ideas at fault?

he also talked about dates, and how it should be 1998743982423986923843 BCE.

Someone tell the timecube website owner his site is dangerous and inciting psychopaths.

Fact is, you all want so badly to pin this on CTers because you hate CTers. Of course, you'll deny it, and fall back on your skepticism credentials. It's all logical conclusion to you, because you are so used to looking through your little spiteful lenses you forgot what the real world looks like.
Click to expand...

Calm down!

I think it is fair to say that this guy was violently irrational and did favour some unusual conspiracy ideas (how people's minds are controlled by grammar etc...)

Unless you want to argue that either:

a) He may not have been the culprit
b) He may not have been irrational
c) He may not have been violent
d) He wasn't into conspiracy theories

Or some combination of the above.

Furthermore it is true that a number of websites are already pushing a conspiracy theory explanation for this. There's one called Citizens For Legitimate Government who are convinced that he was mind-controlled by the military and that his You Tube page has clear evidence of that ("Who would be into Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto?" they ask incredulously. Well, perhaps an irrational type...)
 
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