Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[loverofzion]

Wow. Just wow. That's serious? he wasn't joking?

I wonder why is it that guilters always find someone to support their agenda among complete nutjobs. First the "statement analysis" guy and now this?

Guess you never studied Marxism- or cultural criticism then.
To discredit an accomplished writer based on your own narrow view of the pair's guilt or innocence seems to be the workings of the minds of small, uneducated persons.

 

[babycondor]

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=504236

"In the absence of stable answers, the imagination does its work." - Charles Mudede

And there you have it. A clearer explanation of Mudede's creative writing exercise (not to mention the work of certain police and prosecutor's offices in Italy) will never be found.

 

[loverofzion]

loverofzion,

I tend to take articles with errors less seriously than those without errors. I would take this story more seriously if the source were not anonymous and could confirm it. The story of the witnesses seeing Ms. Knox with darkish man in the laundromat--can you support this with a citation to trial testimony or to the Massei report? What time was she supposed to be there? If a person accepts a story without asking questions, it may mean that they are not approaching it sufficiently critically.

Mr. Mudede wrote his article in February of 2008, so he had plenty of time to double check his facts. SInce it was published, he has had almost three years to correct it.

The friend who was quoted probably has good reason to not expose his little amanda anecdote. He would be barraged with reporters from the pro innocence side in her own hometown, town of the Marriot PR firm and the Knox/Mellas characters.
As for the man in the laundromat story, why don't you try checking on your own.

 

[snook1]

In any event, to Amanda's generation, the Holocaust is as remote and unreal as the history of the Minoens.

That's so not true,

I'm her generation, as you call it, and it's really not that unreal. It just depends on how much time you spend on getting to know the facts and how much you wanted to learn.

 

[Danceme]

In any event, to Amanda's generation, the Holocaust is as remote and unreal as the history of the Minoens.

That's definitely not true. Teaching about the holocaust is addressed in the school curriculum. My daughter is in the 11th grade and throughout the grades has already done Anne Frank's Diary, Night by Elie Wiesel, and there was one other whose title I can't remember, along with numerous research projects. In fact, in typical shallow teenage fashion, she has complained that so many of their english books were holocaust books.
Any young person growing up today has definitely had more than trivial exposure to the issues of the holocaust, Amanda included.

 

[nopoirot]

Let me understand correctly; amanda knew "her people" had killed his people- to the tune of 6 million-; yet because it was an entire 60 years ago, she therefore has no compassion or understanding of human suffering, and finds the whole subject a matter of great hilarity?

BTW, how are you coming along with your "I was there" theory?

 

[Dan O.]

Interesting juxtaposition of topics: On the one hand we have an authoritarian rule committing atrocities and supported for the most part by the majority of it's people. On the other hand we have an authoritarian rule committing atrocities and supported for the most part by the majority of it's people.

 

[christianahannah]

loverofzion,

I tend to take articles with errors less seriously than those without errors. I would take this story more seriously if the source were not anonymous and could confirm it. The story of the witnesses seeing Ms. Knox with darkish man in the laundromat--can you support this with a citation to trial testimony or to the Massei report? What time was she supposed to be there? If a person accepts a story without asking questions, it may mean that they are not approaching it sufficiently critically.

Mr. Mudede wrote his article in February of 2008, so he had plenty of time to double check his facts. SInce it was published, he has had almost three years to correct it.

I don't believe this is mentioned in the motivations, as for trial testimony, who knows? This event was mentioned by Raffaele in his diary. He had seen or read news reports but I can't remember if he recalls the media outlets.

I believe this event was later discounted as not having happened but I don't have the cite.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

history's dustbin

The friend who was quoted probably has good reason to not expose his little amanda anecdote. He would be barraged with reporters from the pro innocence side in her own hometown, town of the Marriot PR firm and the Knox/Mellas characters.
As for the man in the laundromat story, why don't you try checking on your own.

loverofzion,

Why don't you check on the story of the darkish (Moroccan) man and the laundromat? A recent post at Perugia-Shock puts it in the same dustbin as the bleach receipts and the assertion that Raffaele's shoe print was found in Meredith's room.

 

[colonelhall]

Anyone not moved to tears by "Toy Story 3" has no heart and if he feels that he has to view the film from a stone cold Marxist perspective he is a nutjob, in my opinion.

I still think she's as guilty as hell, though!

 

[Justinian2]

Interesting juxtaposition of topics: On the one hand we have an authoritarian rule committing atrocities and supported for the most part by the majority of it's people. On the other hand we have an authoritarian rule committing atrocities and supported for the most part by the majority of it's people.

Loverofzion,

This quote is my best answer to your reply.

 

[TomM43]

I think that to believe this, you have to believe (as Treehorn did before I explained the realities of how courts actually work to him) that the lawyer in question was idiotic enough not to realise that he hadn't actually asked whether or not Amanda smoked marijuana at that party. I think that unlikely.

It is far more likely, seeing as this is how cross-examination normally proceeds, that the lawyer was asking carefully-phrased questions to elicit exactly the answers he wanted. He didn't ask whether Amanda smoked marijuana at that party because he already knew, from reading the statements of Amanda, the boys downstairs, Rudy's friends and so forth, that she did not.

Lawyers and rationalists try to track exactly what was asked and exactly what was said. The untrained human mind is all too apt to fill in the blanks with whatever it thinks should go in there, which is in fact exactly the flaw in human cognition that questioning like this seeks to exploit.



Oh dear. SomeAlibi went down this dark path as well.

It does you and your cause no favours to post "Who cares if facts and logic show she is innocent? She's going to rot in jail because juries are stupid and courts are irrational! Ha ha!".

You conceived and posted the highlighted words, and I take it that is your caricature of the legal system.

I just think your efforts are misdirected. Rather than focusing on one legal case in Italy, you would be better off organizing a campaign to reform the jury instructions.

 

[odeed]

It has everything to do with iron oxidisation. Methaemoglobin is formed by the oxidisation of oxyhaemoglobin (i.e. "regular" haemoglobin). The oxidisation turns the ferrous (Fe+2) iron in haemoglobin to the ferric (Fe+3) iron compounds in methaemoglobin, which then break down under further denaturing and oxidisation into iron oxide compounds. Oxidisation is the key to the transformation, and the brown colour is as a result of iron oxides in the denatured methaemoglobin.

I notice that you artfully employed the term "saturated with oxygen" in preference to "oxidised". Was that deliberate?

I am not dishonest, it was a simplification of how dried blood can be formed in oxygen outside the body from fresh blood from a cut or wound. If you can be bothered to read beyond the first paragraph on methemoglobin^WP, the comon causes lists other chemical compounds which can cause methaemoglobin formation, and it is methaemoglobin which causes dried blood to become darker, and not the formation of iron oxide (or rust) as you keep saying.

 

[loverofzion]

That's so not true,

I'm her generation, as you call it, and it's really not that unreal. It just depends on how much time you spend on getting to know the facts and how much you wanted to learn.

Thank you for that statement reaffirming my faith in the young generation.
I'd add though that it also depends on how much humanity and compassion one can muster for the victims of this-or any other- terrible tragedy.

Apparently amanda lacked this in spades.

 

[loverofzion]

BTW, how are you coming along with your "I was there" theory?

Which theory is that?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Wow. Just wow. That's serious? he wasn't joking?

I wonder why is it that guilters always find someone to support their agenda among complete nutjobs. First the "statement analysis" guy and now this?

Hey, not fair, what about Steve Moore? I think there are nut jobs on both sides, OK!

 

[Kaosium]

I'm not trained in the civil law tradition, so I'll be watching the appeal unfold with great interest.

The notion that it will be a trial de novo is hard for me to buy - that would be an affront to the doctrine of judicial economy.

I'll be stunned to the point of having to lie down if the appeal is not limited to a small subset of the 'questions of fact' raised during the course of the trial.

What I was wondering, was if it's a 'trial de novo' then it would seem the defense has most of the best cards to play. It was their errors and odd judgments against them that allowed for even the skeleton of a case against Amanda and Raffaele. If the bra clasp is thrown out with the 'murder knife' then all trace of either of them at the scene is gone, and the rest of the physical evidence includes very little of Raffaele and only those expected of Amanda. The 'bloody footprints' trick won't work again, neither will the 'phone call before everything happened,' nor will anybody be confused this time that Amanda and Meredith's blood mixed in the sink.

Do you think nailing down just when that spinello was smoked, and with exactly whom, will make up for this massive evidential discrepancy? Do you suspect they will try to make that apologetic waif we see in front of us now into 'Foxy Knoxy' one last time? Do you think this might be considered a desperation ploy?

 

[Poppy1016]

I wanted to comment on an earlier post made by Justinian. I have never been able to figure out how RS DNA could possibly land on the little metal clasp and none on the surrounding fabric. The metal clasp is not touched when removing a bra. Even if he was cutting the bra off, he would have had to leave DNA on the fabric IMO

 

[Chris_Halkides]

methemoglobin

I am not dishonest, it was a simplification of how dried blood can be formed in oxygen outside the body from fresh blood from a cut or wound. If you can be bothered to read beyond the first paragraph on methemoglobin^WP, the comon causes lists other chemical compounds which can cause methaemoglobin formation, and it is methaemoglobin which causes dried blood to become darker, and not the formation of iron oxide (or rust) as you keep saying.

Odeed,

According to Biochemistry, 3rd edition, by Judith and Donald Voet, methemoglobin is the form of hemoglobin in which Fe(II) has become Fe(III), in other words has oxidized by one electron (p. 217). The brown color of old meat is due to the formation of methemoglobin and metmyoglobin.

The enzyme methemoglobin reductase (cytochrome b5 reductase) converts methemoglobin back into its physiologically active form, using NADH as the source of electrons. This appears to be the major pathway in the cells, but three other pathways exist.

I would suggest that the word “saturate” be used to describe the reversible binding of diatomic oxygen to hemoglogin or myoglobin when the concentration of oxygen is much larger than its dissociation constant. That is the generally accepted meaning of saturation in biochemistry. However, the percentage of methemoglobin is sometimes called the “methemoglobin saturation,” which I think is an unfortunate term.

 

[Justinian2]

Hey, not fair, what about Steve Moore? I think there are nut jobs on both sides, OK!

All of Lilliput against Steve Moore? Sounds like an even fight.

By the way, what do you think of the following video? I liked it.

http://interceder.net/news/"amanda-knox"