Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RoseMontague]

LOL, looks like you need to read it. Because there is nothing in there like what you claimed.

LG: Did you know Guede?

AK: I had met Rudy, but I didn't really know him, because actually, I couldn't
even remember his name.​

Katody, (sigh). You should be aware that this doesn't mean that evidence was not presented that Amanda knew Rudy very well indeed.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Katody, (sigh). You should be aware that this doesn't mean that evidence was not presented that Amanda knew Rudy very well indeed.

LOL, looks like all of the evidence that put AK and RS in jail is in fact top secret. Nonsenses Massei wrote are only a clever cover up for that real evidence

 

[treehorn]

1) No - it means that I think your reasoning skills were poor in relation to the way in which you interpreted my post.

2) On the basis that it was never picked up by any of the court reporters. I strongly suspect that had this issue been brought up and properly examined during the body of the trial, it would have been remarked upon by the assembled media - especially the UK press, to whom factors such as cocaine and LSD use would have pushed a very hot button. Do you think that this actually WAS brought up during the body of the trial, but that it was completely missed or ignored by the reporters?

1) You were being rude, and without having first been provoked. An apology would speak well of your upbringing and education.

2) I do not think that the real or perceived absence of this information in the media coverage of this case is a sound basis for an assertion so devoid of uncertainty.

 

[Mary_H]

LOL, looks like all of the evidence that put AK and RS in jail is in fact top secret. Nonsenses Massei wrote are only a clever cover up for that real evidence

That's what they've been telling us for quite some time, Katody.

 

[treehorn]

LOL, looks like all of the evidence that put AK and RS in jail is in fact top secret. Nonsenses Massei wrote are only a clever cover up for that real evidence

You are aware that the translation does not include all of the transcripts and statements referred to in the course of the judgment, correct?

It's not "top secret", it's just not translated into English (free of charge).

BTW, there is more to be gleaned with respect to the relationship between Rudy and Amanda in the Court's judgment on (inter alia) pages 39-41 (concerning the testimony of the young men living downstairs).

I'm no typist - I wasn't going to put it all out there just to see it dismissed out of hand, replete with "LOL's."

 

[Chris_Halkides]

wrongful convictions

Are you incapable of being convinced by due process of a properly constituted court in an advanced country?

lionking,

I would not say that I am incapable of being convinced; I hope that I am capable of thinking for myself and deciding when one particular jury gets it wrong. I just finished "The Wrong Guys" about the Norfolk [Virginia] Four over the holidays, and that is surely a miscarriage of justice. Gary Leiterman's conviction in Michigan defies reason and is a great example of DNA contamination, BTW.

RoseMontague said that reading a bad translation of the Massei report convinced her that the court was in error. I think it is a point in Italy's favor that a motivation report is part of the process. Few if any of us condemn the Italian system as a whole; like the American or Australian systems, Italy is bound to have some wrongful convictions.

 

[RoseMontague]

I was just going to comment on this too. Stefanoni took the mop that had been used to clean the floor in Raffaele's flat into Meredith's bedroom...? I'm assuming this must have been after the bra clasp had been collected (surely?) but it certainly suggests they weren't as careful about not moving objects between rooms as we've been led to believe...

I am wondering if the mop was still wet, and dripping.

Can I also say Wow, just Wow. I didn't see them changing their little white booties from one room to the next.

 

[treehorn]

Katody, (sigh). You should be aware that this doesn't mean that evidence was not presented that Amanda knew Rudy very well indeed.

Imagine the 'unthinkable': Knox is guilty.

In this case, would she be forthcoming?

Get serious.

PS Weren't you the one that said she'd served on juries?

Did you EVER see a court address EVERY argument advanced by counsel and EVERY piece of evidence adduced when judgment was delivered?

(That's a rhetorical question, BTW.)

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Andrew Seliber

Well last I checked weed IS an illicit narcotic, and those people who knew amanda best were mostly her family whose whitewashing their darling angel makes her a quiet, studious great friend to all around her.
We heard from nary a friend of hers from her past, except Madison.

loverofzion,

False. Andrew Seliber testified on her behalf. At his own expense, IIRC.

 

[Mary_H]

You are aware that the translation does not include all of the transcripts and statements referred to in the course of the judgment, correct?

It's not "top secret", it's just not translated into English (free of charge).

BTW, there is more to be gleaned with respect to the relationship between Rudy and Amanda in the Court's judgment on (inter alia) pages 39-41 (concerning the testimony of the young men living downstairs).

I'm no typist - I wasn't going to put it all out there just to see it dismissed out of hand, replete with "LOL's."

You can copy from the Massei report by clicking on the big T at the top of the page, highlighting the text you want to copy, and then using control+C and control+Y to paste. You can't use the usual right-click commands. Also, you can copy from only one page at a time.

 

[quadraginta]

I apologize. My problem is that I have gotten close to the people in this case, the real live human beings. These people have become my friends, and I am proud to have them as friends. They invited me to their Thanksgiving dinner, their low-key New Years Eve party where we all sat around the kitchen and had a warm, friendly discussion while a small tribe of children ran circles through the house and played themselves to exhaustion. Then I get on the Internet and I see not just Amanda but her entire family pilloried, day in and day out, by people who have not the first clue what or who they are talking about. It makes me seethe with anger. It is so utterly contemptible and unfair.

Since anecdote is such a popular form of persuasion in these threads I thought I'd share one which this heartwarming tableau brought to mind.

Shortly after Casey Anthony was first locked up in relation to the disappearance of her daughter Caylee she was liberated by white knight bail bondsman/bounty hunter Leonard Padilla.
Bounty Hunter To Bail Casey Anthony Out Of Jail


Apparently this was due to Padilla's belief that Anthony was being misjudged, and that kind and sympathetic treatment would persuade her to divulge the 'real story', thus enabling Padilla to solve the mystery.

For several weeks we were regaled by the media with similarly touching scenes of simple domesticity and resilience under pressure, fear, and grief, with stories of Padilla or his employees sitting around the Anthony table, eating and suffering with the Anthony family in dignified despair.

Padilla, to his credit, was unable to maintain the pretense for very long.

Only a few short weeks later ...
Casey Anthony back in jail - $500,200 bail revoked

I find your little parable every bit as persuasive as I did the stories being fed to the media during that brief, idyllic period in the Anthony saga, which is to say ... not very. And probably less relevant.

The Anthony family, at least the parents, and the associates that they have attracted have not fared any better in the public eye than have Knox's. Worse, I think.

The reasons behind this treatment are remarkably similar. And equally self-inflicted.

 

[treehorn]

Yet that's what you do 24/7 here. Why don't you engage in actual discussion instead - e.g. get all your gotchas together and present us with some hypothesis of a crime. Or you could give some comment about Patrizia's incredible mop walking video. Do you agree that she is one of the most respected in Europe if not the world?

That's offensive. Have you no civility?

On what ground are you calling me a liar?

If I have made an error, point it out, with proof that an error has been made.

I'll gladly stand corrected.

"Mop Walking" video???

What are you talking about?

(And, FYI, we won't be talking at all if you don't apologize.)

 

[Mary_H]

Since anecdote is such a popular form of persuasion in these threads I thought I'd share one which this heartwarming tableau brought to mind.

Shortly after Casey Anthony was first locked up in relation to the disappearance of her daughter Caylee she was liberated by white knight bail bondsman/bounty hunter Leonard Padilla.
Bounty Hunter To Bail Casey Anthony Out Of Jail


Apparently this was due to Padilla's belief that Anthony was being misjudged, and that kind and sympathetic treatment would persuade her to divulge the 'real story', thus enabling Padilla to solve the mystery.

For several weeks we were regaled by the media with similarly touching scenes of simple domesticity and resilience under pressure, fear, and grief, with stories of Padilla or his employees sitting around the Anthony table, eating and suffering with the Anthony family in dignified despair.

Padilla, to his credit, was unable to maintain the pretense for very long.

Only a few short weeks later ...
Casey Anthony back in jail - $500,200 bail revoked

I find your little parable every bit as persuasive as I did the stories being fed to the media during that brief, idyllic period in the Anthony saga, which is to say ... not very. And probably less relevant.

The Anthony family, at least the parents, and the associates that they have attracted have not fared any better in the public eye than have Knox's. Worse, I think.

The reasons behind this treatment are remarkably similar. And equally self-inflicted.

If Amanda and Raffaele were guilty, it probably would have taken those who know their families only "a few short weeks" to figure it out, too.

 

[TomCH]

Technically marijuana is not a narcotic.

Neither is cocaine, PCP, etc. But, from a legal point of view they are (at least in the US).

 

[RoseMontague]

Imagine the 'unthinkable': Knox is guilty.

In this case, would she be forthcoming?

Get serious.

PS Weren't you the one that said she'd served on juries?

Did you EVER see a court address EVERY argument advanced by counsel and EVERY piece of evidence adduced when judgment was delivered?

(That's a rhetorical question, BTW.)

Yes,
I have served on 3 juries, 1 criminal and 2 civil. I can only speak for what the juries addressed. My understanding is that in the Italian system a motivations report should give everything the judge and jury considered important in arriving at the decision they made. If your argument is that they wouldn't consider past use of LSD and cocaine on the part of Raffaele as important, I am interested in hearing your reasoning on that.

If your argument is that you have knowledge of evidence not contained in the report I am also interested in your explanation of that.

If your argument is that there must be more than what is shown in the report for them to have arrived at the decision they made, I would argue that it is because they made a bad decision rather than gave a bad report, leaving out important details.

 

[Mary_H]

That's offensive. Have you no civility?

On what ground are you calling me a liar?

If I have made an error, point it out, with proof that an error has been made.

I'll gladly stand corrected.

"Mop Walking" video???

What are you talking about?

(And, FYI, we won't be talking at all if you don't apologize.)

Am I dreaming?

 

[treehorn]

You can copy from the Massei report by clicking on the big T at the top of the page, highlighting the text you want to copy, and then using control+C and control+Y to paste. You can't use the usual right-click commands. Also, you can copy from only one page at a time.

Oh, so you DO have the Court's report!

Why, then, did you ask me to direct you to pages that you've already had access to/ read/ assimilated?

 

[Katody Matrass]

You are aware that the translation does not include all of the transcripts and statements referred to in the course of the judgment, correct?

It's not "top secret", it's just not translated into English (free of charge).

There is nothing in any transcripts that wasn't already milked dry by Mignini, Massei and the tabloids, you're very well aware of it. Are you trying to say that Massei didn't mention the most incriminating things and instead wrote the nonsense we know? This is not a good way to defend it.

BTW, there is more to be gleaned with respect to the relationship between Rudy and Amanda in the Court's judgment on (inter alia) pages 39-41 (concerning the testimony of the young men living downstairs).

Well? It says Guede was a buddy of Meredith's narcotic producing boyfriend (your words). They knew each other well and consumed narcotics together. Then it happened that he murdered his buddy's girlfriend.

I'm no typist - I wasn't going to put it all out there just to see it dismissed out of hand, replete with "LOL's."

Still waiting for your hypothesis of the crime. You can assert as much as you wish ( Let's pretend ). I promise I'd try not to LOL

 

[Katody Matrass]

Am I dreaming?

 

[Mary_H]

Oh, so you DO have the Court's report!

Why, then, did you ask me to direct you to pages that you've already had access to/ read/ assimilated?

Everyone has the Court's report. I asked you to provide citations in support of the claims you were making. You chose to do it with Massei.