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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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two questions

Nonsense.
By then her mother had been privy to amanda's series of partners; she knew amanda was sleeping with raf at his place.

I was there refers to what it appears, the scene of the murder.

loverofzion,

1. On what basis do you make your claim?

2. Why do you disagree with Micheli?
 
That must have been really strong weed to make him forget this important fact for almost a year.
But he did mention it in 2008, along with the fact that his defense team said he was on the computer all night in November 2007.

From what I understand, you have recently claimed that the Naruto cartoon and the all night computer jag are new evidence. I just pointed out that both have been around for quite some time.
 
Does anyone have further information on this unexplained open drawer in Laura's room that Dan O. mentioned?
I do not recall hearing of this until Dan O. posted it...
Thank you,
RWVBWL


Do I need to draw you a picture?

ETA:
picture.php
 
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shuttlt,

My commenters and I examined a list of 18 supposed lies told by Edda Mellas, as posted at True Justice. We found that all 18 were either wrong or misleading. Has True Justice ever put out a retraction or clarification? If the positions were reversed, I would have. Sorry, but I don't take lists written by The Machine or Harry Rag as being worth much, based on this experience and others.
I'm sure you don't trust them and I don't intend to try to convince you to read them. I merely meant that both sides have their lists of facts and things refuted. The pro-innocence camps lists aren't the only ones, and the pro-innocence camps opinion that their own lists haven't been refuted tells us little in this debate. Either side presumably thinks as you do that the others lists are old, many times refuted and not worth bothering with. If they didn't they could hardly believe in their own case, could they?

I will reread your list.
 
Hi BillyRyan,
Did Rudy not describe to his cell mates how Meredith's killer masturbated on top of her dead body
Do you have link or reference to this story?
RWVBWL You wonder why the prosecution do not want to test the pillow case stains
Maybe they have already tested them and they just dont like the result
I believe what you write of is indeed possible, since apparently Dr. Stefanoni tested some footprints for blood, they tested negative, and she then told the court she never even tested them, since, I speculate, she did not like the results.
Hmmm...
RWVBWL
 
I'm sure you don't trust them and I don't intend to try to convince you to read them. I merely meant that both sides have their lists of facts and things refuted. The pro-innocence camps lists aren't the only ones, and the pro-innocence camps opinion that their own lists haven't been refuted tells us little in this debate. Either side presumably thinks as you do that the others lists are old, many times refuted and not worth bothering with. If they didn't they could hardly believe in their own case, could they?

I will reread your list.

I'd much prefer a solid (not laughable) theory of crime then any list of questionable "evidence" that don't add up to anything coherent.
 
As far as I know she "wrote" and signed two such documents, the "I confusedly remember that he killed her" one in Italian that was actually written by Rita Ficarra and thrown out by the Corte di Cassazione, and then the other "best truth I have been able to remember" one in English a few hours later. She probably didn't understand the first document (certainly not its implications) at the time she signed it, and in the second basically said that her statements of the previous night were worthless.
On what basis do you say she probably didn't understand her first statement? It isn't complicated or long. There was a translator present. The later documents produced that night appear to reinforce the fact that at those points she understands the contents of the 1:45am document.

Bayesian analysis of this is nothing mysterious. We don't need a high level of precision in the numbers here -- even order-of-magnitude estimates will do. There's a tiny prior probability that Knox was involved; we need a very surprising set of observations to be convinced of this. In more traditional JREF-style terms: it's an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.
I think you are doing extremely well if you can get within a few orders of magnitude of any of the numbers.


How extraordinary is the evidence of the "confession"? Not very, in light of the eminently plausible defense explanation I repeated above. It's simply not particularly surprising assuming her innocence. Hence it doesn't count much against her.
To you it isn't surprising and the defences argument is plausible. To others it is surprising and it isn't convincing. Might the answer of your analysis not depend on who is deciding the probabilities?

Everything I just said is 100% Bayesian, even though that "100%" is the first number I've mentioned! It's important to keep this in mind to avoid pointless squabbles over the "legitimacy" of numbers.
I appreciate that what you descibe is Bayesian analysis. None the less your argument depends on saying that the important facts of the case are X, Y, and Z and then assigning odds to them. Isn't this just a more formal version of what everybody else has been doing all along. In an environment where it can't even be agreed that Raffaele's DNA on the knife is surprising, given their innocence, or not I struggle to see how one can proceed with this kind of analysis.

On what "grounds" can you assign probabilities to these matters? On the same grounds as you assign probabilities to everything else, if you're a Bayesian! Because if you're a Bayesian, probabilities are just numbers that refer to your degree of belief.
Sure. But presumably the guilters over on PMF could bung in their proven facts and probabilities and prove that Amanda is guilty. What is this but a formal way of explaining your impression of the evidence in the case?
 
I'd much prefer a solid (not laughable) theory of crime then any list of questionable "evidence" that don't add up to anything coherent.
Does you finding the lists questionable, or a given theory of the crime laughable contradict anything I was saying?
 
Nonsense.
By then her mother had been privy to amanda's series of partners; she knew amanda was sleeping with raf at his place.

I was there refers to what it appears, the scene of the murder.

Amanda was at the scene of the murder both before and after the murder. There is NO 'when' in that quote. It is NOT proper science to put a time on that recall.

The court is about what is seen and heard; not about speculation or hearsay.
 
Nonsense.
By then her mother had been privy to amanda's series of partners; she knew amanda was sleeping with raf at his place.

I was there refers to what it appears, the scene of the murder.

You post misinformation, biased interpretations, and factual untruths on a regular basis, which adds nothing to the discussion but requires that someone point out your obvious errors or let them slip by unchallenged. You do not cite support for your assertions.

So, welcome to my ignore list.
 
______________

Well, Halides, by definition, a fingerprint is only composed of sweat (water + salts).

You appear to be saying---if your argument is sound--- that any fingerprint left by a person also contains DNA from that person. But that can't be right. So,...do you know how frequently a person's DNA is left in their fingerprints?

///

Ermm...... are you suggesting here that human sweat does not contain DNA? Because it does.
 
It was "I can't lie. I was there".
I looked into this at one time. It's something of a red herring. The comment may be found in the trial transcript. It derives from a transcription of a covertly recorded conversation between Amanda and her mother at the prison. They were discussing the DNA findings on the knife found at Raf's apartment. "There" does refer to that apartment. Forget now where I got that, but it's out there somewhere.
 
Does you finding the lists questionable, or a given theory of the crime laughable contradict anything I was saying?

I just find it curious that while the pro-innocence side has a solid theory encompassing both the crime and the subsequent miscarriage of justice the pro-guilt side cannot even shoehorn the winding list of "evidence" into something coherent, with a sensible timeline of events and without bazillion arbitrary assumptions.
 
But he did mention it in 2008, along with the fact that his defense team said he was on the computer all night in November 2007.

From what I understand, you have recently claimed that the Naruto cartoon and the all night computer jag are new evidence. I just pointed out that both have been around for quite some time.

Yet nothing about Naruto was mentioned at trial, I wonder why?
 
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