Be a good little atheist...

MG1962 said:
So all the examples we have here are of people wanting to become politicans?
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Wow, when the hell are you going to run out of straw?

I wasn't going to be a politician. I was going to teach high school English. Long and short of it is that my Fundie mentor teacher, during my student teaching semester, decided I was scum because I was atheist, and got me kicked out of the program.

I went to everyone, had been going to anyone and everyone long before this, to complain of her harassment of me, her vitriol, her verbal abuse, her dogged determination to get me kicked. Instead of getting me a new mentor, as they had said we were entitled to, they told me to tough it out. She got in my face one day, literally screaming that she would "destroy my career." She did. I finally did get kicked from the program, and never got my teaching license.

The hell of this story is that I had two mentors, and the other was also atheist. The Fundie and Atheist teacher seemed to be friends, so I naively assumed the Fundie was okay with atheism. I didn't go around talking about my atheism, only mentioned it once, and didn't have or show any agenda regarding it. I was asked, I answered, and I thought that was it. What I didn't realize was that the Atheist mentor's husband holds a high position on the school board, and the Fundie wasn't her friend...she was only kissing ass because of who the Atheist teacher was married to. The Atheist teacher--since I know you're going to ask--had tenure. She was bullet-proof. I wasn't, and the Fundie took out her full hatred of that woman on me, the student.

No, there was no recourse, no one to whom I could complain, no protection. I was not an employee, I was a student. And students can be failed. I actually wasn't failed, I received an Incomplete. But I was removed from the program and not allowed to finish. I got my English Writing BA, but not my license to teach.

I took it all the way to the college president, whose answer was, essentially: we don't care. Please go away. Try another college if you like, but stop trying here. I tried the teacher's union. Since I wasn't an employee, they couldn't help me. I tried attorneys. No evidence, her word against mine. She made up all kinds of crap about my teaching that were outright lies. I couldn't prove they weren't. No help.

No, there was nothing I could do about it.

All student teachers make mistakes. I admit I made my share. I also had a great deal of success, students who enjoyed my classes and were learning new things, and the support of my cohort. My teaching mistakes were common to all new teachers. I did nothing wrong, nothing that couldn't be corrected easily. I was a damned good teacher, even my program told me that. But being atheist, I was unacceptable to one woman, and she drove me out. She had that power, and she used it.

Now, please don't make anymore strawmen or misinformed assumptions. If you have a question, ask it. But not in the form of a strawman. Argue properly, or move on to someone who cares about your bonfires.
 
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Hellbound said:
Actually, the BSA requires any adult helper (not just scout master) to sign a "belief statement" that says (paraphrasing): one must have a religious belief of some sort to become a decent, moral person. A statement very similar to that required to join the VFW. This type of discrimination is actually protected by the Constitution, as these are private organizations. I think that was what you were saying, but your story gotta gave mixed signals there :)
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Good point, I agree that they have the Constitutional right to do what they're doing, provided they don't receive government subsidy; and I support that right...even though I think they're being dicks about it. My hypothetical probably murked up that point. Slingblade's case is quite different, presuming it was a public school.

Edit: I see Slingblade has clarified the nature of her experience.
 
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MG1962 said:
And Slingblade can not be a teacher anywhere else in America or the world because of it?
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First, I no longer want to be a teacher in an American school. I saw what goes on, and I no longer want any part of it.

Second, there is only one college here, and I can't go back. When you get removed from the program, you can't come back. No second chances.

Third, one semester of student teaching costs a minimum of $1600, and I can't get any more loans since I have my degree now. I don't have $1600 just lying around. You want to pay for it, and also my relocation to another area and a new college that may or may not accept me?
 
MG1962 said:
So asking why someone made no other effort to follow their future carreer after an apparent wrongful dismisal in one place is 'quibbling'
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I think that there's a situation here with the degree of what happens when you announce yourself as an atheist.

Some people really don't care that much. But some people really really really do care.

For example I have a post up at the Examiner where I talk about being an Atheist in very blunt terms.


And I forgot all about writing for the examiner. I have two posts and forgot about it.

But recently when I applied for jobs I got ZERO phone calls. At first I thought it was about the economy. But then I realized that when you google my name you can see the posts. And it dawned on me that I might want to take those posts down.

I usually am the short list candidate when I apply for a job. I have my own company now and I teach at college, but I thought about giving up the college and going for a full time job. I got nothing.

I do think it is because I have those posts up. Now I'm thinking I ought to take em down. Rats.
 
Malerin said:
NAMBLA members can totally sympathize with this rant.

You have an unpopular belief. If you want to share it with people, be prepared for some negative reactions.

I brought this up before, when a thread like this started a few months ago: what would the reaction be if a Christian working at a predominately atheist business started talking about Christ's resrurrection at lunch? I'm sure they'd get that promotion they were gunning for! :rolleyes:
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Mister Agenda said:
NAMBLA members advocate something illegal and dangerous. Your comparison illustrates the intolerance we're talking about.
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Then go to a PETA convention and talk about how much you like the taste of dog. You'll get the same reaction, and deservedly so. You have a right to express your atheistic beliefs. You don't have a right to expect people to like you for it.

How many atheists here would look for an excuse not to hire someone (or fire them) if they saw them pull up in a car decked out with Christian bumper stickers? Quite a few, I bet.

Mister Agenda said:
In your example, the hypothetical atheists would be wrong to deny someone who is best qualified for a promotion because of their religious beliefs. It's wrong no matter who is on the short end of the stick. The difference between us is that we're not trying to justify this sort of behavior. Between us, who do you think is more likely to discriminate against someone who doesn't agree us on a non work-related matter?
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Seriously? LOL. Some of the atheists here are worse than any Christian fundamentalists I've ever run into.

Mister Agenda said:
I'm a manager. I supervise around forty people. The only time religion has ever affected one of my hiring or promotion decisions was when I overheard someone praying before an interview. It sounded very sincere and gave me the impression the guy really needed this job. He was up against someone that was a very even match and I could only hire one. I gave the job to the guy that I heard praying, in hopes that his performance would match his desire for the job (he turned out to be so-so, but for all I know the other guy might have been worse, hiring is a crap-shoot).
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Bully for you.

Mister Agenda said:
Discrimination isn't always wrong (I don't have much sympathy for KKK or NAMBLA members), but even when I don't think it's wrong, I would follow the law. I think Christians should, too. Don't you?
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Belonging to the KKK isn't illegal (nor is the KKK itself, nor is NAMBLA). So already you're advocating discriminating against someone whose beliefs are different than yours. See how easy it is? Nice flip-flop.
 
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Malerin said:
You have a right to express your atheistic beliefs. You don't have a right to expect people to like you for it.
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Maybe not, but you have the right not to be discriminated against, whether that right is one which is practically enforceable 100% of the time in the real world or not.
 
Sceptic Tank said:
Maybe not, but you have the right not to be discriminated against, whether that right is one which is practically enforceable 100% of the time in the real world or not.
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Oh I agree, but it's also not the exclusive domain of religious people. How many members of the old Soviet Politburo were outspoken theists of any type?
 
Wait so you guys are comparing being an atheist to being a member of NAMBLA or KKK and eating dogs?

Are you on crack?



An unpopular view is not the same thing as having an immoral view. That is a ridiculous argument.


A better comparison would be comparing it to being gay. The person is just doing their thing and wants the same rights and freedoms to talk about the things that are important to them in their lives without being ostracized for it because some people don't agree because a 2000 year old book told them not to.
 
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slingblade said:
Which is proper skepticism, but doesn't mean I'm not being honest.

And it wasn't a job. It was the license I lost, and the potential to work in that field.
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I'm a teacher and I can't imagine how you could lose your credential for any religious reason. It's issued by the state. What country did you live in?
 
Beth said:
I wouldn't say that. Equally bad, yes. Worse, no.
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Speaking out against delusions make us bad, doesn't it? Bad atheist is bad.
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truethat said:
Wait so you guys are comparing being an atheist to being a member of NAMBLA or KKK and eating dogs?

Are you on crack?



An unpopular view is not the same thing as having an immoral view. That is a ridiculous argument.


A better comparison would be comparing it to being gay. The person is just doing their thing and wants the same rights and freedoms to talk about the things that are important to them in their lives without being ostracized for it because some people don't agree because a 2000 year old book told them not to.
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So eating dog is akin to being in the KKK or NAMBLA?
 
Malerin said:
I'm a teacher and I can't imagine how you could lose your credential for any religious reason. It's issued by the state. What country did you live in?
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What credential? I was earning it. It hadn't been awarded, so I didn't have one to lose yet. I was dismissed from the program before completion, and denied an opportunity to return.

I lived in the same country I've always lived in: the US.

Ah, okay. I lost my potential license, I lost my chance to finish.

Sorry, I've been awake for 24 hours. Not running on all cylinders at the moment. My mistake.
 
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