Health care - administrative incompetence

And remember, one of the advantages of living in the UK is that we don't have "Thanksgiving".

Or Fox.

Or Republicans.

Or Jerry Springer. Although, in all fairness, I seem to recall he's Mancunian by birth. Just tlike Kim Cattrell. Not sure if I would move to Manchester, if I were you, although it's got a brilliantly designed tall building or two....
 
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Your analysis is much like my own and I agree with most of what you say. However I am not comfortable with the description of what happened after the war as competition in a market of ideologies (though I can see why that is an attractive shorthand).

For me the roots of the right wing retreat were in the outcomes of that ideology in the 1930's. The peoples of europe and america paid that price and they did not forget after they came back from the war: they decided they did not wish to pay again. In face of that the right made concessions and we had a post war concensus during which a compromise system was established under which the super rich maintained a very privileged position but the inequalities were somewhat reduced in order to achieve a better standard for all. The aim of reducing inequality was open and most people understood that it produced better outcomes for most.

That persisted for a couple of generations: but as ever, people take for granted the gains they enjoy and they come to forget how and why those gains were achieved. Naturally enough they stop being grateful for what they have and they start to focus on the imperfections and seek ways to improve their situation. Nothing wrong with that so long as you understand the situation as it was before the changes were made and remember that that situation can re-emerge: people have not changed and their interests have not changed. But people do not remember that, because if you have always had a reasonable life style it is easy to persuade you that this is natural.

It seems to me that this is a cycle: the right retreat when they must and advance when they can: and the rhetoric which underpins the advance changes at each cycle: but the ideology remains the same. In short those who are very rich and powerful genuinely do not have the same interests as most of us.

I agree that the right became resurgent in the Reagan/Thatcher years and that the move towards the current situation has been ruthlessly pursued since that time. This is not surprising. With much greater control of information; and with the ability to exploit cosmetic discontent and to characterise it as evidence of a fundamental flaw in the way things are organised, they can persuade many to misunderstand where their own interests lie. Thatcher was quite open in what she wished to achieve: Victorian values. I do not know if Reagan was so open but in any case they were both mouthpieces for the plutocratic interest and they were personally irrelevant (though I will still dance on her grave). It is no accident that both were rather stupid and rather one dimensional figures. Cometh the hour, cometh the selfish moron.

It is no use saying that the plutocracy has done this to the people: we are complicit, in that we have allowed the limits of debate to be set very narrow; and we have indeed voted for this. The current economic debacle is not an accident: it is an inevitable outcome of these policies. Some of the right do not understand this: but some do, I think. They are exploiting it to further the agenda as well, so the "solution" is more of the same stuff which got us into the mess in the first place.

There is nothing new about the neo-cons, as you rightly say. They are old fashioned laissez faire capitalists: we saw them in the 19th century and we saw them in the 1920's. We see them again in their new emperors clothes, but we do not have the little boy yet.

We better get one soon: because this road leads to war, I fear

While I quite agree with your analysis over-all (it's another way of saying what I said. And, as you say, I was using shorthand to describe a complex cycle of give and take between various factions of the ruling classes in how to deal with the "problem" of Democracy), the problem in the US is that the Corporate Owned Media have sold the public a bill of goods.

It's called Manufactured Consent. It's not that people are complicit (well a few are), it's that they operate in Media Driven set of background assumptions that promotes a centre right ideology as if it were as natural as the air we breathe. Thus the populace often vote against their own interests, not really understanding that they are doing so.

Right Wing Elitists play Right Wing Populists like a fiddle, and Centrist Elitists do much the same with a sizable portion of a spectrum of Liberal to Progressive Populists. There are a few Right Wing Populists that understand the dangers of Private Reserve Banking, but Tea Party/John Birchers target these guys with bogus conspiracy theories about Commies, Jews, and "Illegal Aliens." And there are a few Leftists that also have a similar understanding of how Private Capital undermines democratic institutions, but they have almost no voice in the National Media.

Again, I recommend the BBC documentary Century of the Self, as well as Noam Chomsky's Manufactured Consent for a detailed analysis of how Propaganda is used by the Plutocrats in nations that have an image of democracy to maintain.

I have to give kudos to the more Progressive element of the Democratic Party in the House though. Nancy Pelosi surprised me by taking very tough stances and working with the Progressive Wing to put forth some strong legislation only to have it watered down by the Senate. Which is essentially what happened with the health care bill.

GB
 
Hmm. Something went wrong with this post and it corrupted. Just ignore it.
 
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Oh no, I'm not looking for a fight, just wondering if you were addressing me.

Ok, but where to? I don't think that's a possibility for me. I don't have any money (none whatsoever, I'm just above going homeless, which may happen in the near future), and what nation is going to take in a sick adult youth? From what I understand, health screenings are standard procedure to emigration to filter out the "costly" emigrants, though I could be wrong. If I could emigrate somewhere with a decent universal healthcare system, I'd do so in a heartbeat...

It's true that having an illness could impede the emigration process. But, you're young and you have the brains to enter any number of high tax bracket jobs. You may want to look into going to college in another country.

It's probably a very complicated process, one that will take some research and dedication but it's not impossible. Once you've been there as a student, especially one who is studying medicine, it may be possible to go from there to a work visa and then duel citizenship.
 
If I ever dig myself out of my financial hole, I am seriously considering packing up and heading back to the UK. At least I was until I saw what the Tories are trying to do to the NHS. Now I'm thinking about Sweden. ;)

GB
 
If I ever dig myself out of my financial hole, I am seriously considering packing up and heading back to the UK. At least I was until I saw what the Tories are trying to do to the NHS. Now I'm thinking about Sweden. ;)

GB

Scotland. Devolved administration, ◊◊◊◊-all chance of the right ever getting into power, NHS as safe as it can be given them nutters in Westminster.
 
I believe there are a number of ways to do it.

A good mate of mine got an Irish passport (apparently they're quite easy to pick up if you have Irish ancestors) then used the right of free movement in Europe to simply settle in the UK. Full and instant access to te welfare state, including the NHS.

One of your oter options is to study here, but that can be expensive for non-Europeans and depends upon how far you've got along your higher education (incidentally, "school" is for under 18s in the UK, colleges - for diplomas - and universitiies - for degrees - being what you'd presumably be looking for).

Get your feet under the table for a few years then worry about the whole changing nationality thing.

The ancestor thing only goes back to grandparents. I looked into it, but out of 6 children, my grandfather was the one born in South Africa instead of London or Edinburgh. South Africa would have me but then I'd be even farther away from the books I want.

My cousin, the veterinarian, looked into moving to France. She sent in some paperwork and had a meeting with someone at the embassy. If she hadn't changed her mind, there's a good chance I'd be visiting her in Paris.
 
I believe there are a number of ways to do it.

A good mate of mine got an Irish passport (apparently they're quite easy to pick up if you have Irish ancestors) then used the right of free movement in Europe to simply settle in the UK. Full and instant access to te welfare state, including the NHS.

One of your oter options is to study here, but that can be expensive for non-Europeans and depends upon how far you've got along your higher education (incidentally, "school" is for under 18s in the UK, colleges - for diplomas - and universitiies - for degrees - being what you'd presumably be looking for).

Get your feet under the table for a few years then worry about the whole changing nationality thing.

Well, as far as I know I don't have any Irish ancestors, though I don't really know who my ancestors are, or rather what region they hail from.

The problem with uni, I actually was planning to go right after HS, all ready too. Then my illness hits, and my physical health has just deteriorated every since. Lost my family insurance around the time (turned 18), finally got back on insurance when I was 20, then yanked it away again when I was 21 *sigh*. The issue I have is very debilitating, so I'm not sure I could be a student unless it's properly treated. (at least, an effective student). I do still want to go to a university, but if only I could get rid of the debilitating pain...
 
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I have to give kudos to the more Progressive element of the Democratic Party in the House though. Nancy Pelosi surprised me by taking very tough stances and working with the Progressive Wing to put forth some strong legislation only to have it watered down by the Senate. Which is essentially what happened with the health care bill.

GB

Do you remember the "public option pledge"? NONE of them held to it. NONE.

Don't you at least want an apology? Why are you not irate over that?

I mean, I now feel ambivalent about the PO because it was sneeky. It was just kinda wrong. It was a deception. But at least it was better than turning "HCR" for the US into a freakin MANDATE to buy private insurance!
 
The ancestor thing only goes back to grandparents. I looked into it, but out of 6 children, my grandfather was the one born in South Africa instead of London or Edinburgh. South Africa would have me but then I'd be even farther away from the books I want.

My cousin, the veterinarian, looked into moving to France. She sent in some paperwork and had a meeting with someone at the embassy. If she hadn't changed her mind, there's a good chance I'd be visiting her in Paris.

But South Africa was ours at that stage. Did you check whether they were still British citizens/subjects?
 
Do you remember the "public option pledge"? NONE of them held to it. NONE.

Don't you at least want an apology? Why are you not irate over that?

I mean, I now feel ambivalent about the PO because it was sneeky. It was just kinda wrong. It was a deception. But at least it was better than turning "HCR" for the US into a freakin MANDATE to buy private insurance!

Pelosi is no progressive. And the PO that was in the final house bill was a weak watered down version, hardly anybody would have been able to get on it. Plus, it's confirmed that Obama already planned to nix the public option long before it was officially killed by the Senate.
 
Pelosi is no progressive. And the PO that was in the final house bill was a weak watered down version, hardly anybody would have been able to get on it. Plus, it's confirmed that Obama already planned to nix the public option long before it was officially killed by the Senate.

I know.
But...what the holy hell?
Is there even a word for this kind of pseudo-democracy?
 
Do you remember the "public option pledge"? NONE of them held to it. NONE.

Don't you at least want an apology? Why are you not irate over that?

I mean, I now feel ambivalent about the PO because it was sneeky. It was just kinda wrong. It was a deception. But at least it was better than turning "HCR" for the US into a freakin MANDATE to buy private insurance!

Well, I think they did their best under the circumstances. Obama cut their feet out from under them. They weren't left with any other options. Even stalwarts like Dennis Kucinich in the end figured that trying to get something was better than nothing.

If it weren't for the Individual Mandate (which is horrible), I would at least grant that some of the Insurance Reforms are a baby step in the right direction.

GB
 
For a young person, coming here to study is quite common, though you have to make sure it's a genuine course as fake "language schools" set up to get past immigration rules are being stomped on.

The trouble is, it costs money. They charge foreign (non-EU) students serious money. You'd probably have to find a scholarship somewhere, and I don't suppose that would be easy under the circumstances.

Marrying someone with right of abode is of course a perennial favourite. Where I lived previously, my next door neighbour (the wife) was American, though she had actually been born in Germany and her family emigrated when she was five so I don't know quite how that worked. She met her husband when he was in the States doing a summer job working in a summer camp (he's a teacher). She said she would never have married him and come to live in England if he hadn't promised her they would go back the the USA after a few years.

She took the trouble to make sure both her children were propertly registered to have dual US/UK nationality, and they take regular holidays in Seattle to visit her folks, but the talk about returning to the USA tailed off over the years. I think she's been here close on 25 years now, the children are grown and gone, but she and her husband are still in the house next door to where I used to live, and showing no signs of going anywhere.

I think the penny dropped some time ago.

Rolfe.
 
Pelosi is no progressive. And the PO that was in the final house bill was a weak watered down version, hardly anybody would have been able to get on it. Plus, it's confirmed that Obama already planned to nix the public option long before it was officially killed by the Senate.

But Pelosi was at least a real Liberal (though no Leftist I would agree), and actually wanted a stronger version of the Public Option. But in order to keep the House Democrats united she was forced to compromise even more than she would have liked.

And in the end it was Obama's fault for killing any hope of even the weakest Public Option.

GB
 
A freer market will reduce costs overall.

...snip....


But you've just been arguing that GPs in the UK are paid a lot less than those in the USA and that you couldn't have a system like the NHS in place because the Drs wouldn't work for so little.... don't you see the contradiction in your arguing?
 

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