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Chaos Magic

D'rok said:
Would an altered state of consciousness give us any meaningful or reliable information about the external universe? If so, what sort of information, and how?
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I take it this is a no?
 
Limbo said:
The idea behind Chaos magic is simple. Everything is permitted, everything is true. A chaos magician uses the power of paradigm shifting, in conjunction with altered states of consciousness, in order to elicit psychic functioning for a purpose. That, in essence, is magic.

So an intrepid skeptic who wants to test chaoes magic would start with a little reading about the principles of Chaos magic. Then, he or she selects a method of achieving gnosis. Gnosis is the Chaos magic term for altered state of consciousness. There are several methods to choose from, and its a very personal choice. Self-hypnosis, sexual orgasm, frenzied dancing, entheogens, ect.

Then he or she learns to contruct a sigil. A sigil is a personal symbol of intent, which the psychic energy of your gnosis is directed toward. Intent is a crucial ingredient. For instance, our intrepid skeptic has the intent to experience psychic ability. So he or she first constructs a sigil that symbolizes that intent, then uses a method to achieve a temporary state of gnosis, and waits.
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In other (and many fewer) words, you're advocating wishing, while stoned.

My own life experiences tell me that that does not work and will not work. Can you provide any rationale that make it reasonable to posit that it might work? For instance, even if I'd never seen a telescope in action and didn't know the complete design for a telescope, if I can see that lenses change the direction of light rays, it at least suggests the possibility that a telescope could work. What is the underlying basis for suggesting that wishing while stoned might do anything?

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Myriad said:
In other (and many fewer) words, you're advocating wishing, while stoned.

My own life experiences tell me that that does not work and will not work. Can you provide any rationale that make it reasonable to posit that it might work? For instance, even if I'd never seen a telescope in action and didn't know the complete design for a telescope, if I can see that lenses change the direction of light rays, it at least suggests the possibility that a telescope could work. What is the underlying basis for suggesting that wishing while stoned might do anything?

Respectfully,
Myriad
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The underlying basis is that the nature of reality is or includes consciousness, not merely matter and energy and the 'illusion' of consciousness. Consciousness is primary and it transcends time and space, matter and energy, and it transcends individuality. All those emerge from consciousness. Its a transcendental or mental monism, as opposed to a physical or material monism.
 
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Myriad said:
I tried paradigm shifting, but all that happened was my core competency got leveraged outside the box to bring my value proposition to the table. Still, at the end of the day it is what it is so if we take this off-line we might still push the synergy envelope and reach the low-hanging fruit.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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Boss? Is that you?
 
Limbo said:
The underlying basis is that the nature of reality is or includes consciousness, not merely matter and energy. Consciousness transcends time and space, matter and energy, and it transcends individuality. Its a transcendental or mental monism, as opposed to a physical or material monism.
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No.
 
Time and space, matter and energy emerge from consciousness?

Good grief. How did the universe manage to exist before humans became aware of it?
 
D'rok said:
Time and space, matter and energy emerge from consciousness?

Good grief. How did the universe manage to exist before humans became aware of it?
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The same point had occurred to me. Expect more gobbledygook for an answer.
 
Limbo said:
Some of the conversations I've seen recently are boiling down to the point where a skeptic might realize that its his or her own personal responsibility to, as Sam Harris called it, "build your own telescope". That is to say, evaluate mystical claims by becoming a mystic yourself. Of course Sam Harris would use other terms that are sanitized for 'rational folk', such as contemplative. But me, I am not so kind.

So lets say you are a card-carrying skeptic and you want to do a little mystical investigation of your own, that is to say build your own telescope and see what you can see. Where do you start? Well, you could do as Sam seems to be doing and go the meditation route. But most of us Westerners have a hard time with meditation, and most who try it give it up before achieving mystical altered states of consciousness.

So what other choice does that leave for the intrepid skeptic? Whatever contemplative tradition an intepid skeptic chooses must include a method of gaining altered states of consciousness. That is a universal common denominator in mystical traditions. That is to say, its part of every telescope. Sam Harris has chosen meditation to build his telescope with. But for those of us without the temperament or the time to devote to learning and practicing meditation, there is quicker choice. Chaos magic.

The idea behind Chaos magic is simple. Everything is permitted, everything is true. A chaos magician uses the power of paradigm shifting, in conjunction with altered states of consciousness, in order to elicit psychic functioning for a purpose. That, in essence, is magic.

So an intrepid skeptic who wants to test chaoes magic would start with a little reading about the principles of Chaos magic. Then, he or she selects a method of achieving gnosis. Gnosis is the Chaos magic term for altered state of consciousness. There are several methods to choose from, and its a very personal choice. Self-hypnosis, sexual orgasm, frenzied dancing, entheogens, ect.

Then he or she learns to contruct a sigil. A sigil is a personal symbol of intent, which the psychic energy of your gnosis is directed toward. Intent is a crucial ingredient. For instance, our intrepid skeptic has the intent to experience psychic ability. So he or she first constructs a sigil that symbolizes that intent, then uses a method to achieve a temporary state of gnosis, and waits.

It might take a while to get the hang acheiving gnosis but eventually the unconscious mind of the skeptic, in accordance with the intent of the sigil, would begin to provide the conscious mind with psychic experiences. Then what our intrepid skeptic has done in essence is cast a spell. Paradigm manipulation, sigils, and gnosis. Oh my!
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Um dude, sorry, I already have investigated for many many years, started in 1979 and have practiced cermonial magic, wicca and shamanism.

There are no paranormal powers, the only thing that there is is a human brain, all gods, devi, spirits, powers, reside there and only there. The brain is the center of perception, one can change the parameters of that perception to some degree. But one can not influence teh area outside of the brain.

To quote a story of Uncle Al:

There was a student who sat by the river and days became, months, months became years, everyday they focused their mind on teh water, and the river. And one day after many long years they attained the state of being able to walk on the water and they crossed the river.

The student then went to thei Master and explained that after many years of practice they had walked across the river.

Master: You do know people take the ferry everyday?



The point being, influence yourself and use the tools that exist. Do not pray for strength, develop strength.
 
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Limbo, the moment anyone, anywhere, provides any evidence at all that any of what you're saying does anything, we'll start paying attention.

Until that day, pfft.
 
D'rok said:
Time and space, matter and energy emerge from consciousness?

Good grief. How did the universe manage to exist before humans became aware of it?
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There is more to consciousness than conscious awareness.
 
Limbo said:
The underlying basis is that the nature of reality is or includes consciousness, not merely matter and energy and the 'illusion' of consciousness. Consciousness is primary and it transcends time and space, matter and energy, and it transcends individuality. All those emerge from consciousness. Its a transcendental or mental monism, as opposed to a physical or material monism.
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Are there limits to Chaos Magic?
Could an accomplished Chaos Magician fly or regrow an amputated limb?

If there are limits, what causes those limits?
 
Limbo said:
The underlying basis is that the nature of reality is or includes consciousness, not merely matter and energy and the 'illusion' of consciousness. Consciousness is primary and it transcends time and space, matter and energy, and it transcends individuality. All those emerge from consciousness. Its a transcendental or mental monism, as opposed to a physical or material monism.
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Un supported assertion.

Ontology is pointless you can not tell if it is lifeless energy particles, godthought, butterfly dreams or brains in vats.

It is all the same, there is NO difference.
 
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