Breaking news! Truther Ignored by Senator!

[dc1971]

Do you truly believe organizing such a conspiracy is "impossible"? Is it even far-fetched?

Organizing a conspiracy is possible however keeping it secret for such a long period of time is impossible if not just totally insane for anyone to think that!

 

[Craig4]

It being possible and actually happening are two different things. The fact that it could be done is not evidence that it was done.

 

[TexasJack]

Organizing a conspiracy is possible however keeping it secret for such a long period of time is impossible if not just totally insane for anyone to think that!

I think Ben Franklin summed it up best: "Three can keep a secret, if two are dead."

 

[tempesta29]

Please share with all of us your evidence of a conspiracy. You've suggested that could have or it would be possible. Show us your evidence that anyone besides Al Qaida conspired to hijack planes and fly them into buildings now please. Any members of the conspiracy who have come forward with statements, memos, e-mail chains, wire transfers, phone calls would all count as evidence. You've stated what could be done no show us proof that anyone did it.

I've seen this before. You don't need to skip over the scientific parts if you're right! Why skip over those parts? Your science is fool-proof right? But it isn't. At the very least the science of the WTC collapses is disturbing and at its greatest extent it is damning and indicting. No steel-framed high rise will collapse at free-fall acceleration without explosive assistance. It cannot happen under any other conceivable circumstances. You genuinely believe that there were circumstances for which there is no physical evidence that caused some magical internal situation that led to an occurrence that had never happened before? You can't see it. I've read the NIST report.

We know the predominance of the core columns didn't collapse until the outer structure did so because there is still a remaining structure on the roof just prior to global collapse. Do you genuinely believe that showing an unwitting controlled demolition expert a video of that collapse would elicit that person to respond that the building collapsed from anything but explosives? I would be willing to bet you that in a demonstration to 100 of such individuals that not 5 would even consider the collapse to be anything but controlled. Would you take that kind of bet?

 

[tempesta29]

Organizing a conspiracy is possible however keeping it secret for such a long period of time is impossible if not just totally insane for anyone to think that!

Do you think such a secret gets easier or harder to maintain over time? I'll give you time to answer that one (tricky).

It being possible and actually happening are two different things. The fact that it could be done is not evidence that it was done.

Pardon me but do you see anyone using its possibility as evidence that it happened? I sure hope not, because I see quite a few using its alleged "impossibility" as evidence that it never happened, hence my response.

 

[tempesta29]

I think Ben Franklin summed it up best: "Three can keep a secret, if two are dead."

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

I'm sure Franklin said many things. He may have even been quoted at one point as dismissing the possibility of interplanetary travel at one point. Times change and so do methods over time.

Then again it wouldn't surprise me if two thirds of 9/11 agents were dead.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Your snarky comment notwithstanding, I find it a continual source of amusement (and sadness for our education system) that a collection of individuals have, for years, gone bleating about some form of "inside job." Something that, in order to devise, plot, fund, implement, and cover up for all time, would be so near impossible to carry off successfully it's a distinction without a difference. Too, the complete lack of follow-through re: planting WMD in Iraq, or even maybe one or two follow-up incidents in the US (including anything leading up to the 2004 and 2006 elections).

I neglected to add the immense amount of physical evidence that would be created and also left behind by any kind of "inside job." An immense amount. Not just at the scene(s), but prior to the events as well. None exists.

Why immense? Why countless people involved? It's difficult to imagine a more complex and large scale undertaking as that suggested by the conspiracy minding in regard to 9/11. Not to mention one designed to take place in the middle of a bright, sunny day. In a city of 8-million. A city that is the media capital of the world.

It's damned silly. And it's contemptuously insulting.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Your opinion is noted, and I disagree with it.

What a surprise! My "opinion" is grounded in reality, however. Yours...

All you need to do to carry out such a plan successfully is have a powerful propaganda program in place to tell the story you want to tell. If you create an atmosphere in which people are afraid to question that story and in which people ridicule others for questioning that story, then it basically is self-regulating.

Y'know, you're probably a nice enough person. But the above is nonsense.

You lack the objectivity to discover truth under all circumstances. Your ego is far too involved for that.

You didn't answer my question. Are you:

1) Ignorant due to lack of knowledge?
2) Willfully ignorant because you've made up your mind?
3) Operating with an agenda for which 9/11 is a means to help achieve it?

 

[tempesta29]

No, it's absolutely not. Please provide evidence for this claim. I would love to see the picture.

I don't have pictures. There are many accounts. Here are some:
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html

So sound only travels one direction? Why are there no seismic signatures for these explosions that were so powerful, that they lifted people off the ground, but is not recorded on any cameras, and you can show no injuries from such an explosion.

They're all lying it turns out. Every single person who experienced ground shaking explosions is lying. They all also have no ability to distinguish explosions from ~80 floors above them and many floors below them. These people are all semi-retarded.

Really? How so? Please explain your logic.

Not a sigle barotraumatic injury. Barotrauma injuries are VERY VERY painful, and can cause permanant damage to internal organs.
And yet, not a single report of them.

You haven't established that my claims require barotrauma. Those who said they felt explosions never claimed these explosions occurred in the same air space, first of all. Second, you are completely incapable of proving no barotrauma occurred. Don't waste your time trying either. It isn't possible.

Neat? You call this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Wtc-photo.jpg neat? Holy ****, I hope you don't consider this neat. If you do, I would hate to see your house.

I really hope this post wasn't meant to bolster your case. It's not just that it was lame; it was useless. WTC 7's debris pile was most impressive considering its damage was extremely one-sided. It was a tall building. It didn't so much as graze the post office right next to it. I would expect some collateral damage, if not far more than was seen under such circumstances. If you were demolishing that building, how much neater would you expect it to be?

Incorrect. The study IIRC was incorrect. I don't remember the study exactly, but I know it's been discussed here many times before.

Thanks for sharing your subjective memory with us. Next time please keep it to yourself.

You haven't seen the many hundreds of pictures, have you?

Would you expect to see them during the collapse? If so, why?

I've seen many photographs. Photos of fires during collapse would illustrate the degree to which fires may have influenced the collapse of WTC 7. Photos of the north face just prior to collapse tell us just what the building was experiencing immediately prior to its demise. Do you find this irrelevant? Does that topic bore you?

Incorrect. The Penthouse proves this to be incorrect.

The east penthouse falls into the structure and we have no evidence as to how that respective columns(s) descends. I'd be willing to bet that said column descends at free fall for roughly 2.25 seconds though. Why wouldn't it? Its 80+ brothers and sisters seem to do so.

Didn't need to. Read the NIST report.

I've read it.

Really? Let me guess, Operation Northwoods? (Which, BTW, was never enacted, and went to great lengths to avoid injuries to real people.)

Is it your opinion that the US government hasn't fabricated disaster in order to further its agenda?

So, because YOU didn't see him apologize, he didn't? That is laughable at best.

Well, if I had apologized for such an attack, I would have notified Huffington Post about it at some point:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/14/harry-whittington-dick-cheney_n_762418.html

We've already heard this tripe hundreds of times. The problem is, you and your ilk continue to point out the same things we have heard, and proven incorrect.

I. Don't. Care.

And many more than those, who have actual qualifications (myself included) have shown them time and time again, that they are wrong. To date, not a single truther has published anything outside of Bentham and Jo911S. Not even one.

Perfect. Then we both agree to stop using such qualifications are talking points in this debate.

It's a deal.

 

[tempesta29]

I neglected to add the immense amount of physical evidence that would be created and also left behind by any kind of "inside job." Am immense amount. Not just at the scene(s), but prior to the events as well. None exists.

Why immense? Why countless people involved? It's difficult to imagine a more complex and large scale undertaking as that suggested by the conspiracy minding in regard to 9/11. Not to mention one designed to take place in the middle of a bright, sunny day. In the middle of a city of 8-million. A city that is the media capital of the world.

It's damned silly. And it's contemptuously insulting.

Your opinions are so much fun. Let me know, however, when you feel inspired to talk about something else.

What a surprise! My "opinion" is grounded in reality, however. Yours...

Y'know, you're probably a nice enough person. But the above is nonsense.

You didn't answer my question. Are you:

1) Ignorant due to lack of knowledge?
2) Willfully ignorant because you've made up your mind?
3) Operating with an agenda for which 9/11 is a means to help achieve it?

Uh, gee professor. I think I'll just choose not to attend. Your God'dern tests are sooo hard.

P.S. If you ever feel inclined to talk in a civil manner I'll be here.

 

[The Platypus]

Not another one coming in here with smug "oh i'm so superior to everyone here" game... Do you realize how often we see this?

 

[tempesta29]

Not another one coming in here with smug "oh i'm so superior to everyone here" game... Do you realize how often we see this?

Do you realize how many times I've read the above?

You're in the "9/11 Conspiracy Theories" section of the forum. Welcome.

 

[332nd]

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

I'm sure Franklin said many things. He may have even been quoted at one point as dismissing the possibility of interplanetary travel at one point. Times change and so do methods over time.

Then again it wouldn't surprise me if two thirds of 9/11 agents were dead.

Well we know 19 are.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Well let me go ahead and answer that for you since it is clear YOU DON'T KNOW... it would take a figure reaching well into 6 digits (with no decimal points). What you, and the rest of the truth movement, is implying is that employees of the WTC, along with the victims, the victims families, passengers of the four hijacked jets, police, firemen, government agencies and independent agencies performing investigations, the news media, international agencies, and the residents of New York City were in on the conspiracy!

LOL. How you could know such a thing is beyond me.

He's engaging in a very conservative analysis of probability. I can't "know" there's a Starbucks on the far side of the moon offering 2-1 lattes to anyone who pulls up to the drive-thru on a red Vespa. But I think it's a safe bet more one way than the other.

And no, I am implying no thing such as what you've stated above. In a compartmentalized system, far more is possible than you are willing to admit.

A "compartmentalized system?" O-kay...

It's really kind of interesting to watch the conspiracy minded suggest even deeper levels of convoluted machinations necessary to support their unlikely imaginings. When you're in a hole, stop digging.

 

[TexasJack]

I'm sure Franklin said many things. He may have even been quoted at one point as dismissing the possibility of interplanetary travel at one point. Times change and so do methods over time.

Yes, you're right, it has become even harder to keep a secret in this day and age. I'll just chalk this up to another subject you are ignorant about: human nature.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

One needn't have total awareness of a conspiracy in order to effectively contribute to its success.

You've suggestd controlled demolitions at the WTC. Do you have any idea what it would involve in on-the-scene manpower and man hours to stage the necessary requirements for that outcome, even without the use of large, passenger-laden airplanes crashing into the Center? And what are you going to tell your guys they're doing for all that time and with all that equipment, turning the towers into rockets to Mars?

 

[A W Smith]

Please share with all of us your evidence of a conspiracy. You've suggested that could have or it would be possible. Show us your evidence that anyone besides Al Qaida conspired to hijack planes and fly them into buildings now please. Any members of the conspiracy who have come forward with statements, memos, e-mail chains, wire transfers, phone calls would all count as evidence. You've stated what could be done no show us proof that anyone did it.

I've seen this before. You don't need to skip over the scientific parts if you're right! Why skip over those parts? Your science is fool-proof right? But it isn't. At the very least the science of the WTC collapses is disturbing and at its greatest extent it is damning and indicting. No steel-framed high rise will collapse at free-fall acceleration without explosive assistance. It cannot happen under any other conceivable circumstances. You genuinely believe that there were circumstances for which there is no physical evidence that caused some magical internal situation that led to an occurrence that had never happened before? You can't see it. I've read the NIST report.

We know the predominance of the core columns didn't collapse until the outer structure did so because there is still a remaining structure on the roof just prior to global collapse. Do you genuinely believe that showing an unwitting controlled demolition expert a video of that collapse would elicit that person to respond that the building collapsed from anything but explosives? I would be willing to bet you that in a demonstration to 100 of such individuals that not 5 would even consider the collapse to be anything but controlled. Would you take that kind of bet?

You didn't answer his question. Show us how your "compartmentalization" can cause the participants of such a huge complicated conspiracy to not be aware of the destruction you allege that they could have done. Show us how the building could have been rigged for a CD without the demo team knowing about it. Tell us how the conspirators could have kept silent, every potential whistleblower who had a suspicion that they were part of the chain of events that caused the murder of 3000 people. Tell us how the thousands of volunteers and professionals who did the recovery and cleanup could hide away any evidence of detonators, det cord, explosive residue, thermite residue, thermite burnt steel columns, and shape charges and keep their co-workers silent. tell us how could the thousands of engineers architects and staff and outside vendors work in cooperation to falsify a 2000 page report, Without a single member spilling the beans in ten ***** years!!! Tell us how you could keep the suspicions of teams of investigators silent as they pored over thousands of tons of debris on sorting conveyors and then raked through the remains again after it was spread out on the ground with rakes looking for things no bigger than a thumbnail at fresh kills. tell us why absolutely none of the engineers, architects, fire and rescue, police, clean up and demolition professionals who actually worked the ***** site agree with you that it was a CD? Tell us how the chemists or lab assistants or testers whom you allege developed and processed the tons of thermite or thermate or nano thermite or whatever flavor of the week the jackass truth movement tries to back into a conspiracy based on nothing but profound ignorance, managed to keep silent for over ten years and could have successfully buried any trail of evidence whatsoever of its production, testing, and application.

You got nothing, Nothing but your stupid incredulity. You are not unique. Nothing new. You spout the same idiotic talking points right down the line of a movement you claim not to be a member of. Your conspiracy is based on nothing more than the thinnest slice of "it could happen". But it cant and we have shown you why. Instead of reading the books you eat the covers. Its "too much work for you". Remain ignorant then. You can be another prime example of a truther we can hold up and say "This is your brain on stupid".

 

[Regnad Kcin]

It's amazing how polarizing some ideas can be. It's you who make this so controversial. Do you truly believe organizing such a conspiracy is "impossible"?

Yes. Without a single doubt.

Is it even far-fetched?

I don't think the distance can be measured.

Do you genuinely believe that you've considered conspiratorial possibilities without bias?

I doubt you have. Your beliefs are your temple, and you're afraid to tear down the temple to which you worship. It's actually kind of cute.

Irony is your forte, I'll give you that.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

...Pardon me but do you see anyone using its possibility as evidence that it happened? I sure hope not, because I see quite a few using its alleged "impossibility" as evidence that it never happened, hence my response.

I hope you're not including me in your little sample. I state that a 9/11 "inside job" conspiracy is 100% impossible, yes. But that's not evidence. Just the prevailing reality based on probability. It's up to you to build a case, with evidence, to counter it.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Your opinions are so much fun. Let me know however, when you feel inspired to talk about something else.

Instead of yet another snarky retort empty of content, why not counter what is written?

Uh, gee professor. I think I'll just choose not to attend. Your God'dern tests are sooo hard.

P.S. If you ever feel inclined to talk in a civil manner I'll be here.

Spare me. Your first post to me was rude. I don't care, by the way. Just pointing out your hypocricy.

Now, let's say you just get back to presenting that evidence for a red Vespa parked outside a lunar Starbucks.