Someone please call them to explain a 'red-shift'

[Jack by the hedge]

hence the 'shift'.

You just pointed out, you comprehnd and accept the shift and even ranted previously about what a blue shift is.


The mass is doing it.

We already knew what blue and red shift were. You were the one claiming intergalactic mass could cause red shift. It can't.

Now you are blustering about water causing blue shift. It doesn't. Light has a shorter wavelength while passing through water, but it returns to its previous wavelength when it emerges from the water. The frequency never varied. To put it another way, the time of arrival of successive wavefronts at whatever kind of detector you like did not change. No shift.

 

[Unlike a Bull]

To be fair, if you're not going to get out, having a coffee might help while you wait for someone to rescue you.

Funnily enough though, I have a way to do it.

Yea, it's not impossible. I wonder if your solution is the same as mine. Actually, I can think of two solution, but one is impractical and would likely kill the person trapped in the room. I wonder if Bashadi can come up with a solution.

 

[edd]

Yea, it's not impossible. I wonder if your solution is the same as mine. Actually, I can think of two solution, but one is impractical and would likely kill the person trapped in the room. I wonder if Bashadi can come up with a solution.

Mine is deeply deeply impractical, but perfectly safe.

 

[Unlike a Bull]

isnt all em, just light (electromagnetic)?

Who cares if it is visible as that is a tiny range?

I put up a wavelength, that i know affects water (evidence the microwave oven) and i knew that h2o will convert the energy (em) to many other wavelengths.

No. Not all em is light. light is the name we give to the portion of em that can be detected by the human eye.

Nobody cares if the light is visible or not. But the detector only responds to light in the visible range. You're still trapped in the room.

You dont like it when you are stumped do you.

A microwave's magnetron releases ONE wavelength as the specimen and it is light (em) and i know and the majority who comprehend, also know that.

but you dont know how to be honest with yourself and realize, you have no argument.

get over it

Microwaves don't work by producing light. If you wanted to use infrared to open the door, why use a microwave? Why not just rub your hands together in front of the detector? Also, you're still trapped in the room.

 

[Bishadi]

Greetings Bishadi,

Let's do a thought experiment. Pretend you're locked in a room with a single monochromatic light source. For argument's sake, say its 480 nm, but any wavelength will do. Also in this room is a detector which detects the wavelength of light. This detector is set to open the door when it detects visible light that differs from the 480 nm light that's being emitted. You have at your disposal any amount of lenses, mirrors, prisms, glasses of water, etc. Anything you want so long as you don't use the equipment as a new light source. This means you can't just light a match to generate new light. You have to change the wavelength of the 480 nm light to escape. How would you escape the room?

So to hold the character of the 'experiment'; it's impossible.

Reasons;

1. .......Any mass that is capturing em, is reemitting it. (base physics thru QM/QC but more importantly, common sense)

2. ....... without mass, there is no emission (exchange) of em (postulate), whether a lense or a recieving plate (detector).

but here is an experiment showing the emission of a greater frequency from the usage of the 480nm

http://nanowire.kaist.ac.kr/Paper/9.pdf

The 480 nm system of Cs, has been receiving special
attention, since it shows a bound-free transition as diffuse
fluorescence bands from 500 to 610 nm.


notice the math of the PROGRESSION (if you like to read evidence combined with experiments)

 

[Bishadi]

No. Not all em is light. light is the name we give to the portion of em that can be detected by the human eye.

aye..... same stuff dude.

kind of like ALL OF IT is electric and magnetic fields at perpendicular planes (faraday/maxwell) in which a SIZE (4pir2) is affected.

all em is just light in one form or another. ie... an infrared detector 'sees' the infrared band (the aura) of a living body.

That whole of the universe is not black but a criss crossing of light (em) of wavelengths we cant see. ie... nothing dark out there except to the unedumacated

Nobody cares if the light is visible or not. But the detector only responds to light in the visible range. You're still trapped in the room.

if all light is absorbed and reemitted (via mass), then which lense can be used, if i cannot use a new 'source'?

Microwaves don't work by producing light.

Then what is the em, they are producing?

magic stuff?

Microwaves have wavelengths that can be measured in centimeters! The longer microwaves, those closer to a foot in length, are the waves which heat our food in a microwave oven.

http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/micro.html


and would you please call NASA and tell them to fix their website?


Gamma-rays are the most energetic form of light and are produced by the hottest regions of the universe.

http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/gamma.html


they trying to say gamma is even light and you dont tink so


Will you tell them, they have no idea what they are talking about, too?

If you wanted to use infrared to open the door, why use a microwave? Why not just rub your hands together in front of the detector? Also, you're still trapped in the room.

you are the one trapped, dooooood

 

[Unlike a Bull]

So to hold the character of the 'experiment'; it's impossible.

Reasons;

1. .......Any mass that is capturing em, is reemitting it. (base physics thru QM/QC but more importantly, common sense)

2. ....... without mass, there is no emission (exchange) of em (postulate), whether a lense or a recieving plate (detector).

but here is an experiment showing the emission of a greater frequency from the usage of the 480nm

http://nanowire.kaist.ac.kr/Paper/9.pdf

The 480 nm system of Cs, has been receiving special
attention, since it shows a bound-free transition as diffuse
fluorescence bands from 500 to 610 nm.


notice the math of the PROGRESSION (if you like to read evidence combined with experiments)

Yea, I kind of figured you would get to that. I was trying to make my meaning clear by including more than just the part of the sentence you chose to focus on. re-read:

"Anything you want so long as you don't use the equipment as a new light source. This means you can't just light a match to generate new light. You have to change the wavelength of the 480 nm light to escape"

I was trying to indicate that you aren't allowed to just use a match or flashlight to trip the sensor. To most people, reflecting or refracting light isn't creating a new light source. I suppose, technically, if you want to consider the absorption and emission process generating light, you can. But I would not consider mass absorbing then re-emitting light a new light source. I think you understand the problem that was stated and are just trying to weasel your way out.

I was hoping you would actually think about the way light works and learn something. It appears that, by you pulling up an article with the exact wavelength I randomly chose in the thought experiment, you were just googling random portions of my question. Good job.

I'm going to read that article you linked and get back to you.

 

[DC]

To me it sounds like Bishadi is confusing Absorbtion with the Redshift, which is a shift and not an absorption.

 

[Bishadi]

Yea, I kind of figured you would get to that. I was trying to make my meaning clear by including more than just the part of the sentence you chose to focus on. re-read:

"Anything you want so long as you don't use the equipment as a new light source. This means you can't just light a match to generate new light. You have to change the wavelength of the 480 nm light to escape"

OK and why i used the wavelength (you said any) of light (you didnt define what light is the right light other than 480 as an example), that i know affects h2o and anyone can comprehend the outcome. Without having to get fancy, i was offering common sense and you didnt like it. (nor the other goofs)

I was trying to indicate that you aren't allowed to just use a match or flashlight to trip the sensor.

and i didn't cheat

but you did..... "only the visible'

To most people, reflecting or refracting light isn't creating a new light source. I suppose, technically, if you want to consider the absorption and emission process generating light, you can. But I would not consider mass absorbing then re-emitting light a new light source.

because you are not maintaining causality that mass is actually what is going to change the wavelength/frequencies of the em.

ie... the redshift is not space expanding, it is of mass causing it and i am trying to see if people can go to the letter of science and adher to evidence over the dodging of ranting trolls.

These people love to render 'where's the math? where's the evidence?' and that is what i am providing. As every item i have claimed is of evidence and of previous mathematical representations. The difference is in reading it from a different point of view that is causally maintaining application to evidence within a diversity of data and material evidence that COMBINES the disciplines.

I aint doing anything funny except showing people how to see the evidence with common sense, versus the rants and raves of complacent idiots who do little by whine when i can address the material with comprehension that is as simple as 'why didnt i think of that' (stupid easy).

I think you understand the problem that was stated and are just trying to weasel your way out.

quite the opposite. You dont wanna just admit the lense, no matter which angle is what is affecting the em and any change will be by mass, not speed (like hubble published and you accept).

this thread aint about me, it is about evidence supercedes the accepted interpretations

It appears that, by you pulling up an article with the exact wavelength

because i know, all mass has specific signatures and specific em affects each molecular structure of mass, via angle of exposure, fields, environment and you apparently dont know this

I randomly chose in the thought experiment,

most of your posts are random, i know

you were just googling random portions of my question. Good job.

more information on the net, than you will ever know (apparently)

that is why i dont give answers to certain questions because the moron will not loook and the ones who want to know, will do the same thing i do; take the key words and go do the homework.

i mentioned the word aura......... do you know what that is? Just the em emissions of your body but an old analogy of about the same thing, 1000's of years ago.

I'm going to read that article you linked and get back to you.

best copy every post and have lots to think on.

just consider me someone that wont lie to you. i make mistakes and will stand up when i do as it is the right thing to do. Get the point.

evolve dooood and i promise you will live longer

 

[Unlike a Bull]

http://nanowire.kaist.ac.kr/Paper/9.pdf

The 480 nm system of Cs, has been receiving special
attention, since it shows a bound-free transition as diffuse
fluorescence bands from 500 to 610 nm.

Cool. You're out of the room, Bishadi. And I must say, fluorescence wasn't one of the ways I thought to escape. Good job (I actually mean it this time).

For the record, I would have used the mirrors, given them different velocities and doppler shifted the light ( I realize I would only be able to get a slight change, even with high velocities of the mirrors). The second, completely impractical way was to get a very dense mass (blackhole, even) near the sensor, putting it in a gravity well and blue-shifting the light. Oh, and there's also vibrating photonic crystals.

So now, Bishadi, the reason for the thought experiment was to determine what, exactly, you think is happening in interstellar space. Is that it? Fluorescence?

 

[bjornart]

Refraction is not redshift.



It certainly does. It can absorb it, and slow it down. But it doesn't redshift it.

If the mass is large enough, it can also bend light.

Hans

Well, technically... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_redshift )

 

[Bishadi]

To me it sounds like Bishadi is confusing Absorbtion with the Redshift, which is a shift and not an absorption.

because you WILL NOT maintain the FACT, that between the original source and the receiving apparatus, there is mass/energy in many forms.


That is how ignorance works.

 

[Bishadi]

Cool. You're out of the room, Bishadi. And I must say, fluorescence wasn't one of the ways I thought to escape. Good job (I actually mean it this time).

For the record, I would have used the mirrors, given them different velocities and doppler shifted the light

that means mass is reemitting your light.

you are aware of that correct?

( I realize I would only be able to get a slight change, even with high velocities of the mirrors). The second, completely impractical way was to get a very dense mass (blackhole, even) near the sensor, putting it in a gravity well and blue-shifting the light. Oh, and there's also vibrating photonic crystals.

mass doing the duty, all cases


i was actually going to go evanescent on you

In optics, evanescent wave coupling is a process by which electromagnetic waves are transmitted from one medium to another by means of the evanescent, exponentially decaying electromagnetic field.

Coupling is usually accomplished by placing two or more electromagnetic elements such as optical waveguides close together so that the evanescent field generated by one element does not decay much before it reaches the other element. With waveguides, if the receiving waveguide can support modes of the appropriate frequency, the evanescent field gives rise to propagating wave modes, thereby connecting (or coupling) the wave from one waveguide to the next.

Evanescent wave coupling is fundamentally identical to near field interaction in electromagnetic field theory. Depending on the impedance of the radiating source element, the evanescent wave is either predominantly electric (capacitive) or magnetic (inductive), unlike in the far field where these components of the wave eventually reach the ratio of the impedance of free space and the wave propagates radiatively. The evanescent wave coupling takes place in the non-radiative field near each medium and as such is always associated with matter, i.e. with the induced currents and charges within a partially reflecting surface. This coupling is directly analogous to the coupling between the primary and secondary coils of a transformer, or between the two plates of a capacitor. Mathematically, the process is the same as that of quantum tunneling, except with electromagnetic waves instead of quantum-mechanical wavefunctions





but that may be too technical for this group it is why i had been sticking to mud and water kind of stuff

So now, Bishadi, the reason for the thought experiment was to determine what, exactly, you think is happening in interstellar space.

lots of stuff (mass/energy). Heck the solar wind is rockin'.

 

[DC]

because you WILL NOT maintain the FACT, that between the original source and the receiving apparatus, there is mass/energy in many forms.


That is how ignorance works.

even if there is a medium, and maybe there is, it is not the same as the redshift.
when light passes a medium parts of it might get absorbed, but that is not the same as when the spectrum is SHIFTED to the red, or blue.

 

[Bishadi]

i was actually going to go evanescent on you

In optics, evanescent wave coupling is a process by which electromagnetic waves are transmitted from one medium to another by means of the evanescent, exponentially decaying electromagnetic field.

Coupling is usually accomplished by placing two or more electromagnetic elements such as optical waveguides close together so that the evanescent field generated by one element does not decay much before it reaches the other element. With waveguides, if the receiving waveguide can support modes of the appropriate frequency, the evanescent field gives rise to propagating wave modes, thereby connecting (or coupling) the wave from one waveguide to the next.

Evanescent wave coupling is fundamentally identical to near field interaction in electromagnetic field theory. Depending on the impedance of the radiating source element, the evanescent wave is either predominantly electric (capacitive) or magnetic (inductive), unlike in the far field where these components of the wave eventually reach the ratio of the impedance of free space and the wave propagates radiatively. The evanescent wave coupling takes place in the non-radiative field near each medium and as such is always associated with matter, i.e. with the induced currents and charges within a partially reflecting surface. This coupling is directly analogous to the coupling between the primary and secondary coils of a transformer, or between the two plates of a capacitor. Mathematically, the process is the same as that of quantum tunneling, except with electromagnetic waves instead of quantum-mechanical wavefunctions



.

ps...... by having a gap between there is that 'resonant energy transfer' i keep mentioning

here is wiki


Resonant inductive coupling or electrodynamic induction is the near field wireless transmission of electrical energy between two coils that are highly resonant at the same frequency. The equipment to do this is sometimes called a resonant or resonance transformer. While many transformers employ resonance, this type has a high Q and is often air cored to avoid 'iron' losses. The two coils may exist as a single piece of equipment or comprise two separate pieces of equipment.

Resonant transfer works by making a coil ring with an oscillating current. This generates an oscillating magnetic field. Because the coil is highly resonant any energy placed in the coil dies away relatively slowly over very many cycles; but if a second coil is brought near to it, the coil can pick up most of the energy before it is lost, even if it is some distance away. The fields used are predominately non-radiative, near field (sometimes called evanescent waves), as all hardware is kept well within the 1/4 wavelength distance they radiate little energy from the transmitter to infinity.





then to comprehend casimir and that gap between plates...... anyone know what that 'potential' is being observed?




how many see all the disciplines in this post?


are they related?



just wait until we get into chemistry and perhaps the "synaptic junction"

 

[Bishadi]

even if there is a medium, and maybe there is, it is not the same as the redshift.
when light passes a medium parts of it might get absorbed, but that is not the same as when the spectrum is SHIFTED to the red, or blue.

if i shine a light thru a hole and then into a prism, you will see the pattern on the wall, now put a glass of water just past that prism to capture the whole emission; did the pattern on the wall "shift" from the previous location?


dahhhh

 

[Mojo]

if i shine a light thru a hole and then into a prism, you will see the pattern on the wall, now put a glass of water just past that prism to capture the whole emission; did the pattern on the wall "shift" from the previous location?


dahhhh

Did the colour of the light change? That is what you were claiming.

 

[Unlike a Bull]

lots of stuff (mass/energy). Heck the solar wind is rockin'.

And what does this stuff do to the light? How, exactly, does the stuff redshift the light?

 

[Bishadi]

Did the colour of the light change? That is what you were claiming.

mass/energy affects the individual wavelengths but the dc rendered the 'spectrum' 'shift'


if you draw the scale on the wall, without the water in between the wall and prism, then place the water in between the 'spectrum will shift'

ooops.


if you read the OP, they were mentioning the H affecting the spectrum and then rendered the 'shift' within the bands...... ie.... there is utter mass besides just H affecting it

maybe the solar wind


maybe the dark crap people now believe the universe has 78% more stuff inbetween them galaxies being observed.

either way, the shift is not because of the space expanding (as that is an error cause by speculations; not reality)

 

[Mojo]

if you draw the scale on the wall, without the water in between the wall and prism, then place the water in between the 'spectrum will shift'

The colour of the light doesn't change; it is just projected onto a different part of the wall.