Someone please call them to explain a 'red-shift'

[tusenfem]

If i pass light thru water, does it redshift the light?

No

 

[Bishadi]

No. It doesn't. Wanna try again?

You shouldnt post anymore


How does water affect light?


Water bends and refracts light

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_water_affect_light



i figured the kids 'answers' dot com, is better for you.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

No matter which direction the light is coming from that is being captured from the galaxies 'way far away', there is an affect (redshift) to the light coming from them galaxies (from all directions). The method of confirming it with common sense is to ask yourself, is the earth the center of the universe or not.

Centre of the universe is irrelevant. All galaxies are moving away from each other in an expanding universe. Geometry may not be your forté.

 

[MRC_Hans]

a prism from a glass of water is changing the light.

Refraction is not redshift.

because mass affects light

It certainly does. It can absorb it, and slow it down. But it doesn't redshift it.

If the mass is large enough, it can also bend light.

Hans

 

[Jack by the hedge]

<ad-homs snipped>How does water affect light?


Water bends and refracts light

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_water_affect_light.

If you do not know the difference between changing the direction light is travelling and changing its frequency, then perhaps you need to re-read some of the Wikipedia pages you've been skimming.

By the way, your text appears to have been blue shifted. I hesitate to ask what your words passed through.

 

[RussDill]

C'mon people, you aren't seeing the big picture. Sure, math, logic, and common sense all tell you that refraction and redshift are two very different phenomenon, but step back and ask yourself, what do you BELIEVE.

Bishadi is on a completely different planet where science, results, data, etc, mean nothing, all that matters are his perceptions and that should be proof enough for everybody.

 

[Fnord]

ON the latter, yes, I guess if you consider the crystal as a part of an oscillator circuit, the crystal can be said to produce Fm, though I think it's probably a poor example of frequency shifting, since as far as I know the frequency of the voice into the microphone is not really shifted, and the frequency of the carrier is modulated by changing the characteristics of the oscillator, not by changing the characteristics of the wave after it's been produced.

It's very ineffeicient, with frequency deviations of the carrier being less than the banwidth of a standard AM broadcast signal.

As for the transformer, yes if you overdrive a transformer, you'll get distortion and, as a consequence, some new frequencies, but I don't think the fundamental is changed. You've basically wrecked one wave and transformed part of its energy into a bunch of other waves, but I wouldn't say you'd really shifted its frequency.

Oh, I see what you mean. To shift the frequency, you'd need some kind of heterodyne circuit (a diode modulator would do). You put two frequencies in, and you get four frequencies out -- f₁ + f₂ --> f₁, f₂, the Sum (f₁+f₂), and the difference (f₁-f₂) -- the carrier, the modulant, the sum, and the difference. If you filter out all but the sum, you can vary f₂, keep f₁ fixed, and the sum will shift. This is the principle of single-sideband modulation.

I can move a house with my excavator. See, I have smashed it up into little pieces and piled the pieces in the back field. In what sense have I moved the house?

By scrambling the signal (the house) and transmitting (moving) the scrambled signal to another location (the back field). To bad there's no 'de-scrambler' back there.

 

[Fnord]

C'mon people, you aren't seeing the big picture. Sure, math, logic, and common sense all tell you that refraction and redshift are two very different phenomenon, but step back and ask yourself, what do you BELIEVE.

Bishadi is on a completely different planet where science, results, data, etc, mean nothing, all that matters are his perceptions and that should be proof enough for everybody.

Belief proves nothing.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Belief proves nothing.

Yeah, but if Goethe thought it was poetically beautiful, then using Adams Equation for poetry:

Truth = Beauty

therefore
Beauty = Truth

Therefore anything you like. All this science schmience just gets in the way of proving what you want to be true.

 

[Bishadi]

Refraction is not redshift.

let the basics preschool rendition educate you

Wavelength and the Index of Refraction
Light travels as waves, with the wavefronts perpendicular to the direction of motion. In the animation shown here, the wavefronts are represented by the green parallel lines. The red arrow represents the direction of motion. As light moves from air into water, it not only slows, but the wavelength changes. The animation below illustrates how the wavelength becomes shorter in the denser medium of water.

http://www.rpi.edu/dept/phys/Dept2/APPhys1/optics/optics/node7.html

and by the way, the math is on that edu site for you to eat

It certainly does. It can absorb it, and slow it down. But it doesn't redshift it.

what wavelength is blue?

what wavelength is red?

if the water is affecting the wavelength, then from blue to red is something you should look into.

me personally, it is the angle that proves it to me. (light comes in at 'x' and leaves at another vector.... basic geometry would represent you have no idea what you are talking about.

If the mass is large enough, it can also bend light.

from campbell to eddington, never and not a once has that eclipse experiment been consistant or verify 'space bending'.


ie... if it did, einstein would have recieved a nobel but deep in the caverns of many, there is an honesty and few actually hold it with absolution.


hans..... go away. As ooosual you post nonsense and not a dam thing to back it up. Kind of like a lonely kids kicking a can to just make noise

 

[Bishadi]

If you do not know the difference between changing the direction light is travelling and changing its frequency, then perhaps you need to re-read some of the Wikipedia pages you've been skimming.

seems to me the whole of the em spectrum is in wavelengths (meters).

perhaps your disciplines are craching within your undisciplined mind

By the way, your text appears to have been blue shifted. I hesitate to ask what your words passed through.

this internet (a medium) of material that affects light, when energy is upon it.

Ie.... if i say, 'light is the life of mass' and someone uses it, the total potential of the material information increases. (a blue shift per se)


but as ooooosual, you dont apply your own conscious experiences with descriptions of nature.

Kind of like goethe did

 

[edd]

Bishadi, I think this argument is tired.

 

[AvalonXQ]

what wavelength is blue?

what wavelength is red?

if the water is affecting the wavelength, then from blue to red is something you should look into.

Frequency remains constant. Speed changes, which also changes wavelength.
Doppler shift is a change in frequency.
And besides that, the change in speed from entering a different medium is reversed when the medium is left.

 

[Bishadi]

C'mon people, you aren't seeing the big picture. Sure, math, logic, and common sense all tell you that refraction and redshift are two very different phenomenon, but step back and ask yourself, what do you BELIEVE.

so, is a sunset, offer a comprehension of a redshift?

or do idiots actually believe that the universe is expanding when not a one of you have ever experienced it?

see the difference. (compare it to a god believer; never can it be proven, yet 'i believe' is the whine)

Bishadi is on a completely different planet where science, results, data, etc, mean nothing,

the data is what makes a fool out of a believer. Kind of like how evolution makes a fool out of a creationist and there aint no math other than data to provide the evidence.

RD is you are bound to nothing but your own acceptances.

get over yourself

You dont adher to data, you adher to what people tell you.

all that matters are his perceptions and that should be proof enough for everybody.

anyone can percieve equally. I live on that foundation (equality) and definitely not the ideology that because you learn what you are told to and accept it blindly, that you are better than another.

that type of thinking is like calling yourself a 'chosen one'

 

[commandlinegamer]

From post #18, http://www.redshift.com.au/images/redshift1.png

Sorry. That's what happens when you skim through a thread.

 

[Bishadi]

Frequency remains constant. Speed changes, which also changes wavelength.

that would mean if i drive away from you and look back in the mirror, your color would change.

So why is one wavelength (sound) and yet visible light not acting the same?

does mass affects each wavelength different?

Doppler shift is a change in frequency.

funny

you just said Frequency remains constant. Speed changes, which also changes wavelength

And besides that, the change in speed from entering a different medium is reversed when the medium is left.

reversed? That would break the second law of thermodynamics.

 

[Mojo]

so, is a sunset, a offer a comprehension of a redshift?

 

[Mojo]

that would mean if i drive away from you and look back in the mirror, your color would change.

Not in a car like yours.

So why is one wavelength (sound) and yet visible light not acting the same?

Light travels faster than sound.

you just said Frequency remains constant. Speed changes, which also changes wavelength

Yes, that's why (as people have been telling you) the changes in speed and wavelength involved in refraction are not a Doppler shift.

Reversed? That would break the second law of thermodynamics.

 

[Unlike a Bull]

Greetings Bishadi,

Let's do a thought experiment. Pretend you're locked in a room with a single monochromatic light source. For argument's sake, say its 480 nm, but any wavelength will do. Also in this room is a detector which detects the wavelength of light. This detector is set to open the door when it detects visible light that differs from the 480 nm light that's being emitted. You have at your disposal any amount of lenses, mirrors, prisms, glasses of water, etc. Anything you want so long as you don't use the equipment as a new light source. This means you can't just light a match to generate new light. You have to change the wavelength of the 480 nm light to escape. How would you escape the room?

 

[AvalonXQ]

that would mean if i drive away from you and look back in the mirror, your color would change.

That's right. And it does -- which is exactly what a policeman's radar gun picks up (different EM range, but same effect). But the difference of a few k/s on visible light isn't enough for the difference to be detectable to your eye.
On the other hand, the difference in the much slower sound waves ARE noticeable -- which is why you can tell if the train is coming or leaving by how high the whistle sounds.
Read the Wikipedia article on the Doppler effect^WP. Then state whether you agree with it, or deny it -- and if you deny it, explain why.