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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
And if the 2-3 hour t(lag) is taken (or, frankly, even if a 2-4 hour t(lag)) is taken), it puts the ToD at between 9pm and 9.30pm (or 9.00pm-10.30pm for the 2-4 hour t(lag)). A ToD between 9pm and 9.30pm pretty much blows the prosecution case apart, and even a ToD before 10.30 holes the prosecution case below the waterline. Either timing would pretty much nullify the earwitnesses and Curatolo. A pre-10.30 ToD actually implies a pre-10.15 ToD, since there was a broken down car outside the house between 10.30pm and around 11.35-11.40pm, whose occupants testified to no noise, light, activity or coming/going to the cottage while they were there.
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bobc said:
You're starting to convince me, but I thought Curatolo and Capezzali were considered unreliable - Curatolo, "an alcoholic with mental health problems (probably)", and Capezzali, "old, a bit deaf (probably)". Or are they now considered reliable if they support the defence?

I am sure someone was telling me how bad it is to flip-flop over the same piece of data, in order to suit an argument...

Anyway, I think you have cracked the case, it just needs the defence to call on you or Kevin Lowe, as expert witnesses, and the whole thing can be quickly cleared up. Did you get an invite yet?
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I don't see where LJ is claiming Curatolo supports the defense. Perhaps you can point to that one for me. Who are you quoting in your comments about Curatolo and Capezzali?
 
odeed said:
A box plot would be a better representation of the data.
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Well, the study I quote most often has 90 data points which conform to a pretty good bell curve when plotted on a frequency vs time basis. Have you seen the charts in the study?
 
RoseMontague said:
I don't see where LJ is claiming Curatolo supports the defense. Perhaps you can point to that one for me. Who are you quoting in your comments about Curatolo and Capezzali?
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Sorry, I think I misinterpreted that bit.

It is still possible though that Knox and/or Sollecito were present in the 9-9.30 period. Unfortunately they have a mound of circumstantial evidence still to overcome, I think only a very solid alibi would help them at this point.
 
bobc said:
Sorry, I think I misinterpreted that bit.

It is still possible though that Knox and/or Sollecito were present in the 9-9.30 period. Unfortunately they have a mound of circumstantial evidence still to overcome, I think only a very solid alibi would help them at this point.
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It is up to the prosecution to disprove their alibi and Curatolo is the one the prosecution is using for the time of the murder. Unfortunately, his testimony is not likely to hold up in the appeal. As far as the "mound" goes, it is indeed a rather large mound, rather quite detailed in it's inconclusive nature, in my opinion.
 
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bobc said:
It is still possible though that Knox and/or Sollecito were present in the 9-9.30 period. Unfortunately they have a mound of circumstantial evidence still to overcome, I think only a very solid alibi would help them at this point.
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At the rate the 'mountain' of circumstantial evidence is shrinking it'll be a tiny molehill by the time the independent review is finished. They'll probably be able to step right over it.
 
RoseMontague said:
It is up to the prosecution to disprove their alibi and Curatolo is the one the prosecution is using for the time of the murder. Unfortunately, his testimony is not likely to hold up in the appeal. As far as the "mound" goes, it is indeed a rather large mound, rather quite detailed in it's inconclusive nature, in my opinion.
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A quick sniff of the "mound" might be sufficient to determine its composition :D
 
Fulcanelli said:
No Mary, you provided no evidence Curatolo is mentally ill. You evidenced only that some homeless people are mentally ill. I don't understand how that can be applied to a specific person. And it is insulting. It is not insulting to call someone mentally ill when they are, bur it is when they are not.

And we come to rank hypocrisy again. Time and again you Amanda defenders have have insisted that claims about whether Amanda is a sociopath, or even gave an opinion that she is, let alone state it as fact...must not be made unless she is personally studied and diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Yet the same is not required of Curatolo to declare him mentally ill.

The double standards just keep on coming!
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You are absolutely right, Fulcanelli. I have written many times that no one can be diagnosed without an in-person examination by a legitimate mental health professional. I have, indeed, been using a double standard.

From now on, if I have a need to characterize Curatolo, I will use the term "eccentric."
 
bobc said:
Even if the 2-3 hour range is preferred, it does not rule out Knox and Sollecito involvement, so I don't think it introduces any reasonable doubt, so I am baffled why this issue is considered so important.

* e.g.
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Chris C said:
Actually a 2 to 3 hour range rules them out completely. They have an impeachable alibi for that time period.
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bobc said:
I don't think that's what you meant to say. :D

One thing that amazes me about this case is how incompetent the defence have been, how could they have missed something so slam dunk?
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Good eye bobc. I meant to say unimpeachable. Sorry it took me so long to edit post. Apparently my ISP decided to take a time out.

Just because there is a chance that either Knox or Sollecito could have RAN to the apartment and killed Meredith at 9:30 means nothing. The reason it means nothing is because more than a murder happened. There were a serious of events that happened to Meredith prior to her death. If she died at 9:30pm then there is a 0 chance that Knox/Sollecito where involved. You have an extensive assault with many bruises, a supposed sexual assault while she is still alive, and a death thats not immediate.
 
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Chris C said:
Thats exactly what I meant to say. Just because there is a chance that either Knox or Sollecito could have RAN to the apartment and killed Meredith at 9:30 means nothing. The reason it means nothing is because more than a murder happened. There where a serious of events that happened to Meredith prior to her death. If she died at 9:30pm then there is a 0 chance that Knox/Sollecito where involved. You have an extensive assault with many bruises, a supposed sexual assault while she is still alive, and a death thats not immediate.
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bobc was referring to you having mistakenly written "impeachable" instead of "unimpeachable" - they have opposite meanings.
 
SomeAlibi said:
Charlie (and Bruce Fisher)

Do you have access to an Italian language version of Massei? If so, could you be kind enough to provide a copy of pages 288 and 304 of the original so that we could complete the translation of Massei for all people wanting to read it in the English speaking world? This would be a service to all concerned with this case.


Thanks
SA
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Ray Turner has one on his blog, The Ridiculous Case Against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.

http://knoxarchives.blogspot.com/

Just look over on the right under Case Documents.
 
Mary_H said:
You are absolutely right, Fulcanelli. I have written many times that no one can be diagnosed without an in-person examination by a legitimate mental health professional. I have, indeed, been using a double standard.

From now on, if I have a need to characterize Curatolo, I will use the term "eccentric."
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Personally, I think it's legitimate to try to examine why Curatolo has spent the past decade as a homeless man. One would presume that the city of Perugia has adequate social services and social housing programmes to be able to assist Curatolo. If that's the case, then he either doesn't want the assistance, or there is something preventing him from getting the assistance.

If he has elected to remain homeless (and presumably also indigent - although I'm not sure on that) for so long, then I think it's reasonable to suppose that he might have some mental health issues (or possibly substance abuse issues, which themselves have roots in mental health issues). If there is something preventing him from having the local authority put a secure roof over his head, then again I think it's fair to imagine that either he has issues which are leading to him being unable to be allowed to remain in social housing, or there is a serious failure in Perugia's duty of care towards one of its citizens.

I'm fully aware that the reasons behind homelessness are many and complicated, and that all sorts of people become homeless for all sorts of reasons. But I think that it's entirely legitimate to worry that a middle-aged man who's been homeless for a decade or more is either being dreadfully let down by his local authorities, or he's making it impossible for them to look after him.
 
I doubt we'll see anyone on the prosecution side going to jail. Sometimes, it happens, but that's not what would make me happy.

Getting AK and RS out would make me happy. Getting their families compensation for the legal expenses would make me ecstatic.

Seeing Amanda get out and make a lot of money and support the ‘Innocent Project’ would satisfy me completely.

To hell with the people that prosecuted Amanda and Raffaele!
 
LondonJohn said:
bobc was referring to you having mistakenly written "impeachable" instead of "unimpeachable" - they have opposite meanings.
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Yeah, corrected my statement to reflect my mistake. I was going to say I was taking a nap and just woke up but that excuse was already taken.
 
Chris C said:
Actually there is a good chance Mignini goes to jail. Just not for the crimes he committed against Knox and Sollecito.
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Well, IIRC if Mignini's conviction is confirmed in its current form, his 16-month prison sentence will be suspended, so he won't actually be spending any time locked up. But it will be very interesting to see how the Italian judiciary's governing bodies might decide to handle Mignini's ongoing career if his conviction is confirmed - after all, it's a pretty serious criminal offence which is directly related to his work as a prosecutor. And I guess it might also be interesting to see if any civil actions are brought against Mignini from any of the victims of his abuse of office.

Time for bed. No more snow tonight, please.
 
LondonJohn said:
Personally, I think it's legitimate to try to examine why Curatolo has spent the past decade as a homeless man. One would presume that the city of Perugia has adequate social services and social housing programmes to be able to assist Curatolo. If that's the case, then he either doesn't want the assistance, or there is something preventing him from getting the assistance.

If he has elected to remain homeless (and presumably also indigent - although I'm not sure on that) for so long, then I think it's reasonable to suppose that he might have some mental health issues (or possibly substance abuse issues, which themselves have roots in mental health issues). If there is something preventing him from having the local authority put a secure roof over his head, then again I think it's fair to imagine that either he has issues which are leading to him being unable to be allowed to remain in social housing, or there is a serious failure in Perugia's duty of care towards one of its citizens.

I'm fully aware that the reasons behind homelessness are many and complicated, and that all sorts of people become homeless for all sorts of reasons. But I think that it's entirely legitimate to worry that a middle-aged man who's been homeless for a decade or more is either being dreadfully let down by his local authorities, or he's making it impossible for them to look after him.
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It's an interesting topic. I looked into it a little yesterday after the discussion, and found a few different approaches, of which this is one:

"The Global Assessment of Functioning (GAF) is a numeric scale (0 through 100) used by mental health clinicians and physicians to subjectively rate the social, occupational, and psychological functioning of adults, e.g., how well or adaptively one is meeting various problems-in-living."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Assessment_of_Functioning
 
LondonJohn said:
Well, IIRC if Mignini's conviction is confirmed in its current form, his 16-month prison sentence will be suspended, so he won't actually be spending any time locked up. But it will be very interesting to see how the Italian judiciary's governing bodies might decide to handle Mignini's ongoing career if his conviction is confirmed - after all, it's a pretty serious criminal offence which is directly related to his work as a prosecutor. And I guess it might also be interesting to see if any civil actions are brought against Mignini from any of the victims of his abuse of office.

Time for bed. No more snow tonight, please.
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If the knox/sollecito case drags into the summer, wont Mignini's conviction be confirmed or not confirmed by then. What kinda reflection will that have on Knox/Sollecito's case. How would that reflect on the calumnia charges against knox, which where supposed to have been investigated by Mignini.
 
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