Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RWVBWL]

I don't think Meredith would look twice at a creep like Rudy. I think we can all agree on that.

I'll have to disagree with you here Withnail1969,
Why, before Meredith Kercher was killed, would Rudy Guede be considerd a creep?

In a few photo's I've seen when his head head was shaved and he has no beard, Rudy Guede was a decent lookin' dude.
BUT he looks downright scary in other shots...
Peace, RWVBWL

 

[Withnail1969]

Funny. She was so sleep deprived she went to the police station with Raffaele when she could have stayed home and even he had told her to stay home. She was so sleep deprived she was doing homework in the waiting room, instead of taking a nap. She was so sleep deprived she was doing yoga and cartwheels. She was so sleep deprived she was able to invent an amazingly detailed story about how she went to the cottage with Patrick and what happened...

If she really was the killer, relishing every moment as she thrust the deadly knife into her housemate's neck, wouldn't she have perhaps tried to play things down a bit the next day?

 

[Withnail1969]

Rudy was tall? 5'10 is tall?

The climb to the window straightforward? Try it. Go to Perugia and show us how easy it is (take a video camera)

The balcony is too difficult to break into? Is that why the cottage was broken into via the balcony...twice?

Have you looked at the videos Katody has posted of people running up 12 foot walls?

 

[RWVBWL]

Burglary, theft and assault are the stock in trade for any criminal solicitors. I'm well into 3 figures for the number of burglary cases I've been involved with. I've spent more hours than I can tell in interview and, in the early days, in cells before the day's hearing and during the breaks with every sort of burglar from the frequent drugs-related cases to the career burglars who all have very specific do's and don't's in their MO's. The most well-off one I can think of specialised in stealing CPU's from computers in educational establishments. His brother, after conviction, said that he was making £100k a year tax free and this is early nineties. Unfortunately for him he got caught burglarising the college that the judge had attended. When the judge said "my alma mater" we all realised he was going down for a proper chunk and he absolutely did. So yes, burglary is, safe to say, something I know quite a lot about.

If we look at the picture of the solicitor during the reconstruction, I do think the climb, if possible is a pretty major pull-up with finger / hand strength. Do you not?

http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=21&image_id=1454

Gosh, SomeAlibi,
Your burglary stories and theories remind me of another strange case.

In Santa Monica, California a few years back, some of the guys who collect the coins from the parking meters noticed what they thought to be a big decline in the amount of coins they were collecting in certain parking structures.
The cops then kept a lookout, but didn't catch any thieves.
The angry coin collectors then took it upon themselves to go undercover and act like shoppers, so to say, and 1 day they spotted a culprit red-handed stealing from the parking meters and he was then arrested.

Over the years, I would sometimes bring that story up as 1 of the coin collectors collected the coins from the parking meters in front of my old surfshop.
And you know what?
It's hard to believe BUT it seemed that the right guy was apprehended, because from what I have heard the parking meter theft spree has not happened since.

That kinda reminds me that per Perugia local Frank Sfarzo,
there have not been any further break-ins to 2nd floor buildings in Perugia, Italy since Rudy Guede was imprisoned...

Since I have read that you, SomeAlibi, have even been to Perugia, Italy, please prove me wrong, if you might!
Can't you ask anyone if they know if any further 2nd floor break-ins have occurred in Perugia since Rudy Guede was imprisoned?
What about Barbie Nadeau, can't you ask her if she might she be able to help prove Frank Sfarzo wrong?
Or heck, might even Mr. Curatolo?

I hope to hear from you about this simple query SomeAlibi!
'Til then, take it easy,
RWVBWL

 

[Fulcanelli]

Where else in the civilised world is it legal to hold a suspect for twelve months without charge while perjurers and liars are sourced by the local paper to frame them

Where is it legal to tell a young girl you are holding without charge that she has aids,a fact that is known not to be true,ask her to write down a list of the lovers she has had and then release it to the press.then while she is trying to come to terms with with having the aids virus she listens on the tv news to the list of her lovers with a few more thrown in for good measure.

Come to think of it the regimes run by Honecker,Ceauscescu and Hoxha would never stoop that low

The formalised arrest by Judge Mattieni in the GIP a couple of days after their arrest is essentially the Italian equivalent of being charged. But really you are comparing apples and oranges by comparing systems...the concept of 'charging' in Italy is different in Italy to common law systems...as is the concept of 'witnesses' and 'suspects'. In fact, they don't even use the words 'charged' witnesses' or 'suspects.' Even an arrest is different. In common law systems police effect an arrest at their discretion and it is formal. Italian police mist have an arrest approved and formalised by a court.

 

[platonov]

I'm aware of it. Apparently there is nothing useful for the prosecution in it because it wasn't leaked to media and it wasn't used neither in Massei nor during trial (AFAIK).

No, I believe it was mentioned and quoted from during the trial, to AK's disadvantage.

 

[Withnail1969]

In fact, they don't even use the words 'witnesses' or 'suspects.'

Surely Italians do use the words 'witnesses' and 'suspects', or are all the references to 'witnesses' and 'suspects' I have read in reference to this case in the last 3 years some kind of bizarre joke?

If they don't use those words, what words do they use?

Ddidn't you yourself defend Amanda's being denied a lawyer on the grounds that she was a witness rather than a suspect?

 

[RWVBWL]

Case Closed!!!

Really? I think you need to cite that. So, let's have it...a cite of Giobbi saying 'We detected their guilt by observing their minor quirks'.<snip>

Wham!

Case closed.

Fulcanelli,
It appears that Katody Mattrass nailed it!
Just click on that little word Wham up above...
Do you have a response?
Hmmm, I wonder...
RWVBWL

 

[Fulcanelli]

Sorry SomeAlibi, but your reasoning here consists purely of "burglars always do this, and I know because I'm an expert!" and doesn't address my arguments at all. Saying a burglar "always looks for lights on and always rings the doorbell at least twice" - as if there were some kind of burglar handbook - is just ridiculous. The burglar who broke into Tramontano's home while he was there, whether or not it was Rudy, clearly didn't do that.

The simple fact is that Rudy's biggest problem in breaking into the house was that he could be recognized, and it's also a fact (I take it you don't disagree on this?) that escaping from the balcony would take a lot more time than getting away from the area where Filomena's window was. Where the doors to both upstairs and downstairs flats are located would make it very difficult for Rudy to make a quick getaway from the balcony without being seen, if someone turned out to be home. He would also be oblivious to someone coming up the driveway as he was in the process of breaking in and being caught redhanded, so to speak. With Filomena's window, he could check no one was coming home right up until the moment he entered the house, and could keep a look-out afterwards. That entry point is far preferable from that perspective.

There's simply no way he could be sure no one was home, not until he'd actually broken the window. Even if he knocked on the door and there was no response, one of the residents could've been home in bed with their boyfriend/girlfriend and chosen not to answer (you've never ignored a doorbell in those circumstances...?). In a house of 8 young people, that's not exactly an unlikely possibility.

You haven't addressed any of the points I've made; saying "burglars always follow the burglar handbook" doesn't do that.

No burglar broke into Tramontano's home, he made the whole thing up, this was established in Rudy's trial and Micheli threw him out. Therefore, it's a bit silly to be quoting his claims as an argument for how burglaries are or are not done.

Why would it take him longer to escape from the balcony?

He could be sure nobody was home by knocking the door. That's what most people do. That's what I do. What do you do, do you break peoples' windows if you want to see if they're home or not?

 

[Withnail1969]

No burglar broke into Tramontano's home, he made the whole thing up, this was established in Rudy's trial and Micheli threw him out.

But why would he make up such a thing?

 

[Justinian2]

Burglary, theft and assault are the stock in trade for any criminal solicitors. I'm well into 3 figures for the number of burglary cases I've been involved with. I've spent more hours than I can tell in interview and, in the early days, in cells before the day's hearing and during the breaks with every sort of burglar from the frequent drugs-related cases to the career burglars who all have very specific do's and don't's in their MO's. The most well-off one I can think of specialised in stealing CPU's from computers in educational establishments. His brother, after conviction, said that he was making £100k a year tax free and this is early nineties. Unfortunately for him he got caught burglarising the college that the judge had attended. When the judge said "my alma mater" we all realised he was going down for a proper chunk and he absolutely did. So yes, burglary is, safe to say, something I know quite a lot about.

If we look at the picture of the solicitor during the reconstruction, I do think the climb, if possible is a pretty major pull-up with finger / hand strength. Do you not?

http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=21&image_id=1454

If the shutters were open it is probably easy.

0) From the starting position of the lawyer, pull the rock out of the backpack, smash the window and open.
1) Grab the open shutter on the left with the left hand.
2) Grab the sill with the right hand.
3) Put the left right foot along side the wood on the bottom window (where the scuff mark is)
4) Swing the left leg up to the sill (have to be flexible this is a near split)
5) Pull up sliding left leg inside window to crotch.
6) Slide in.

 

[Fulcanelli]

You're just lecturing people at great length on what you personally believe burglars do or should do. Rudy would not have been able to get through the balcony because he didn't have a crowbar. He picked Filomena's window because the shutters were already open. That's all there is to it. Similiar opportunist crimes happen every day.

Or actually, SomeAlibi is speaking from professional expertise and experience as being a criminal lawyer he has spent a lot of time defending burglars, as well as other criminals.

Why did Rudy need a crowbar?

 

[el buscador]

No burglar broke into Tramontano's home, he made the whole thing up, this was established in Rudy's trial and Micheli threw him out. Therefore, it's a bit silly to be quoting his claims as an argument for how burglaries are or are not done.

Why would it take him longer to escape from the balcony?

He could be sure nobody was home by knocking the door. That's what most people do. That's what I do. What do you do, do you break peoples' windows if you want to see if they're home or not?

If I want to burgle them I would, for my own safety.

 

[Fulcanelli]

If you actually look at a photo of the balcony you will see some large green shutters which don't appear to be made of glass.



Yes. Unlocked is as good as being open.

Those shutters were closed by the police, in order to seal the crime scene. They weren't shut before, during or shortly after the crime.

 

[katy_did]

No burglar broke into Tramontano's home, he made the whole thing up, this was established in Rudy's trial and Micheli threw him out. Therefore, it's a bit silly to be quoting his claims as an argument for how burglaries are or are not done.

Why would it take him longer to escape from the balcony?

He could be sure nobody was home by knocking the door. That's what most people do. That's what I do. What do you do, do you break peoples' windows if you want to see if they're home or not?

It wasn't 'established' in Rudy's trial that Tramontano 'made the whole thing up'. Micheli found him unreliable in terms of that person being Rudy, which is fair enough; but that doesn't mean no one broke into his flat. And unless you're arguing that burglars don't ever break into people's houses only to find a resident is home, your point is irrelevant anyway.

Your other points were addressed in the post you quoted.

 

[Justinian2]

With all the gun nuts in the USA, the burgular would be half in the window when he saw a smiling skin-head with a gun. The next thing he knew he would be recalling the dream experience to a psychologist or Scientologist in his next life.

 

[Withnail1969]

Or actually, SomeAlibi is speaking from professional expertise and experience as being a criminal lawyer he has spent a lot of time defending burglars, as well as other criminals.

Why did Rudy need a crowbar?

..

 

[Draca]

window conversations

Early break-in window conversations


Domenico Giacinto Profazio - Well, I walked around the cottage and let me tell you there is NO WAY someone could have made it up to that window! I know I couldn't have.

Fabio Marzi - I just spoke to the roommate Filomena and said there was glass on, in the middle and under her items. She thought it was strange there was glass under her clothes. I tend to agree ....

Giuliano Mignini - I think it was a killing of a ritualistic nature. There was likely an orgy involved.

Fabio Marzi - Filomena said she's not sure if she pulled the shutters tightly closed before she left. How could someone get in since she probably closed them shut.

Edgardo Giobbi - Why is the American roommate pretending to look so shocked. Did you see her move her hips also? hummmm

Giuliano Mignini - Thanks Domenico and Fabio, your fine work has confirmed my belief that this was an inside job, a cover up to detract from the fact that this was a ritualistic orgy killing. Edgardo Giobbi, where would we be without your keen observation skills......

 

[Fulcanelli]

IIRC, Raffaele had initially stated he was up late on the computer. His original appeal (before the defense computer expert found this additional information) called for more investigation because before even examining these screen-saver logs they found one file that the police expert did not:

Yes, that's what he said when he said Amanda left him shortly before 9 pm to go to Le Chic. He claimed he spent the whole evening (after eating) alone on his computer until he went to bed at 1 am and shortly after he went to bed Amanda returned.

 

[SomeAlibi]

Hi there SomeAlibi,
Interesting, you can quote some of what Rudy Guede said BUT I can not...

You seem peaved at what I wrote.
Well, please allow me to ask you a few questions with regards to the truthfullness in my post that, you say, besmirched Miss Kercher's honour:

It is true that Rudy Guede said that Meredith invited him over, correct?
It is true that Giacomo,
-(he who, according to Newsweek writer Barbie Nadeau's book "Angel Face" admits to, during their short relationship, have had anal sex with MK),
was gone for the weekend, correct?
It is true that Rudy Guede said that they were going to have consensual sex correct?
It is true that Rudy Guede said that they stopped because they had no condoms, correct?
It is true that Mereidith Kercher did not have her pajama's on nor any other nighttime clothing, correct?

I'll just leave it at that...
RWVBWL

PS-SomeAlibi,
Yesterday as I watched the sun setting over the Pacific Ocean I did say a simple prayer in memory of Miss Meredith Kercher,
with JOY that Rudy Guede's conviction has been upheld at the highest level.
Too bad he did not receive a longer prison sentence, don't you agree?
I wonder...
RW

Rudy Guede's version of events has been rejected by three levels of Italian courts as false. Why would you support it?

Guede got 24 years less the 1/3rd discount for a fast track trial which converts it to 16. Since that's the same base level sentence as Knox and Sollecito, that's clearly the level that the Italian courts are applying to this crime on an even handed basis. I think that's a plenty long sentence myself. Others disagree. In the US in many States, all 3 might have received the death penalty. A barbaric penalty outlawed in almost all of the rest of the civilised world.