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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Supernaut said:
Which of these would have been of most concern to Guede?

- being spotted on the street-lamp illuminated balcony of the darkened cottage by a local resident who would quite possibly later hear that the place had been burgled the same night

- being glimpsed momentarily by a driver or occupant of a passing car, who in all likelihood would never even hear about the break-in.

I don't think anything more needs to be added to this discsussion, frankly.
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Thanks Supernaut, I agree and I would only add that Rudy could be also concerned by the possibility that some tenants are in fact in the house. It happened to him before.
Another thing, though I mentioned it already:
You cannot ascertain the visibility of Filomena's window from Google Street View only. GSV images are taken from the left side of the road (closer to the cottage) and the camera is placed on a mast 2,7m above the surface. Both Filomena's window and the driveway is well below the level of the road. Anybody driving on the right (proper) side of the road and not sitting on the upper level of a double-decker would have a much poorer view.
 
Withnail1969 said:
It sounds very much like what the Italian authorities do.
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Ummm, NO.

They have charged A. Knox (and her parents, but in a separate case) with PERJURY!

Sorry if due to your lack of knowledge of Italian you missed the CORRECT translation.
 
TomCH said:
Ummm, NO.

They have charged A. Knox (and her parents, but in a separate case) with PERJURY!

Sorry if due to your lack of knowledge of Italian you missed the CORRECT translation.
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LOL. How could they charge Amanda Knox's parents with 'perjury'? Tinpot little Fascists.
 
Antony said:
"Comparing" doesn't mean "equating". It's perfectly valid to point out parallels, even if the overall situation is very different.
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But if the details that are relevant to the comparison are orders of magnitude different, what is the purpose? There are similarities between the Wright Brothers plane and the Space Shuttle, but the differences are so many and so great that drawing comparisons to reason about the capabilities of the Wright Brothers plane, or how it might have performed under given circumstance are other is a fools errand. The Perugian police are not the KGB and the police station is not the Lubianca.

Halides and others provide references that are far, far closer to equivalence.
 
shuttlt said:
But if the details that are relevant to the comparison are orders of magnitude different, what is the purpose?
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But they aren't 'orders of magnitude' different. That's a ridiculous and inappropriate term to use.

We are talking about the same situations which have transpired for hundreds or thousands of years, where the authorities use a variety of techniques to break down a prisoner and make them confess. The basics are the same anywhere.
 
shuttlt said:
But if the details that are relevant to the comparison are orders of magnitude different, what is the purpose?
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I missed the reference to the KGB, but I picked up the context - which, if I got it right, was the effect of sleep-deprivation on individuals being interrogated. If the point was that this is a technique used by the KGB, then that is perfectly valid, IMO.
 
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Withnail1969 said:
The balcony is illuminated by a nearby streetlight and the trees on that side of the house are bare.
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No it's not and no they aren't.

The pic you've selected is taken with a high-powered broadcast quality video camera from an area of carpark behind which... there are no flats (see the stood back buildings in googlemaps). The view from the flats is obscured by the tree which is was in perfect full bloom on November 1st 2010 when I took this picture:

http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=13&image_id=2215

The balcony is not illuminated by streetlight as shown on November 29th 2010 when I took this picture at about 9pm. NB this picture is taken with a one second exposure and is therefore much more illuminated than it was in practice. It's dark round that side of the house, really dark and as you can see, the entire climb is obscured by the outhouse. Only a momentary entry into the cover of the shutters would have been necessary - a matter of seconds easily timed.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=13&image_id=2221

Lastly, if you want to see moving images of the area in question, watch this video from 3.00 onwards. You will have full view of the area and how it is obscured.

http://www.youtube.com/user/somealibis?feature=mhum#p/u/2/a1XQbQvuenQ

The angle you showed in your pictures were taken from the car park behind which there are no flats and with a super high-powered lens. At night there is no such view from any flat.

Believe what you will but the contrast *if you actually visit the site* couldn't be clearer between the starkly different degrees of being overlooked and the massively different ease of climb. A burglar would choose only one, time and time again. By any view, the balcony is many many times more logical when you look at it and the alternative and also as evidenced by the two subsequent break-ins which went through... the balcony. It's not even in the same ballpark, sorry.

This mole is not whacked, it's totally dead. You'd do much better to go for Rudy The Simulator - this really is a line of argument that doesn't hold up after three minutes viewing if you've actually been there. Hopefully these pics and videos are of assistance.
 
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shuttlt said:
But if the details that are relevant to the comparison are orders of magnitude different, what is the purpose? There are similarities between the Wright Brothers plane and the Space Shuttle, but the differences are so many and so great that drawing comparisons to reason about the capabilities of the Wright Brothers plane, or how it might have performed under given circumstance are other is a fools errand. The Perugian police are not the KGB and the police station is not the Lubianca.

Halides and others provide references that are far, far closer to equivalence.
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Actually the law in Italy prevents people from defending themselves.

Lets say a woman claims a man beat her. They go to court, have some evidence to support the claim but not enough to get a conviction and he walks free. Nothing happens.

The same woman makes that claim against a police officer and get the same results with a not guilty verdict. They can now start proceedings against her to lock her up for 3 years because the guy was a police officer.

Italy has laws to protect the police and punish people who speak out against them.
 
links to the gift statement

platonov said:
The link to the 'gift' on the FOA site that halides1 used a while back doesn't inspire confidence.
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platonov,

I gave a iink to the FOA to show a portion of the gift statement, one that was larger than the portion I had quoted. You objected, so I provided a link to the whole statement. The way you keep misrepresenting this incident is not helping your credibility.
 
Would it be helpful to the discussion if I introduced the comparison between Knox and Elizabeth Báthory? If D-Day, 1950's communist interrogation techniques, or whatever are worth mentioning, I don't see why she shouldn't be.
 
Chris C said:
Actually the law in Italy prevents people from defending themselves.

Lets say a woman claims a man beat her. They go to court, have some evidence to support the claim but not enough to get a conviction and he walks free. Nothing happens.

The same woman makes that claim against a police officer and get the same results with a not guilty verdict. They can now start proceedings against her to lock her up for 3 years because the guy was a police officer.

Italy has laws to protect the police and punish people who speak out against them.
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I fail to see that this justifies a comparison with soviet interrogation techniques.
 
Chris C said:
Italy has laws to protect the police and punish people who speak out against them.
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Of course it does. It's a former Fascist country which has never really apologised for its role in World War 2. Only its cowardice in surrendering without a fight to the Allies saved it from heavy destruction.
 
Chris C said:
Actually the law in Italy prevents people from defending themselves.

Lets say a woman claims a man beat her. They go to court, have some evidence to support the claim but not enough to get a conviction and he walks free. Nothing happens.

The same woman makes that claim against a police officer and get the same results with a not guilty verdict. They can now start proceedings against her to lock her up for 3 years because the guy was a police officer.

Italy has laws to protect the police and punish people who speak out against them.
Click to expand...

This is invented Italian law.
There is no difference between a police officer and any citizen. What makes you think that "nothing happens" if the accused man is acquitted and walks free? If an accusation was made which the accuser knew was false, this is formal calunnia.
 
Dan O - I thought that timeline of yours was well done but why is the computer activity of the morning of Nov 2nd missing? The multiple events are a significant piece of evidence in the case, just like the computer activity of the 1st which you have listed.
 
SomeAlibi said:
No it's not and no they aren't.

The pic you've selected is taken with a high-powered broadcast quality video camera from an area of carpark behind which... there are no flats (see the stood back buildings in googlemaps). The view from the flats is obscured by the tree which is was in perfect full bloom on November 1st 2010 when I took this picture:

http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=13&image_id=2215

The balcony is not illuminated by streetlight as shown on November 29th 2010 when I took this picture at about 9pm. NB this picture is taken with a one second exposure and is therefore much more illuminated than it was in practice. It's dark round that side of the house, really dark and as you can see, the entire climb is obscured by the outhouse. Only a momentary entry into the cover of the shutters would have been necessary - a matter of seconds easily timed.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=13&image_id=2221

Lastly, if you want to see moving images of the area in question, watch this video from 3.00 onwards. You will have full view of the area and how it is obscured.

http://www.youtube.com/user/somealibis?feature=mhum#p/u/2/a1XQbQvuenQ

The angle you showed in your pictures were taken from the car park behind which there are no flats and with a super high-powered lens. At night there is no such view from any flat.

Believe what you will but the contrast *if you actually visit the site* couldn't be clearer between the starkly different degrees of being overlooked and the massively different ease of climb. A burglar would choose only one, time and time again. By any view, the balcony is many many times more logical as evidenced by the two subsequent break-ins which went through... the balcony. It's not even in the same ballpark, sorry.

This mole is dead. You'd do much better to go for Rudy The Simulator - this really is a line of argument that doesn't hold up after three minutes viewing if you've actually been there. Hopefully these pics and videos are of assistance.
Click to expand...

You keep saying this stuff but nobody believes you. The climb into Filomena's window is straightforward for a tall, slim, athletic guy like Rudy. 'Impossible', perhaps for you. The balcony is clearly exposed and would be too difficult to break into.
 
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