Iran and the Nazis

Like many Israelies, several members of my close family are alumni of TAU. I have colleagues who teach there. I myself attended it for a year before transferring elsewhere.

To claim it is "as biased as Teheran University" is beyond ridiculous. It's on the same level as saying, "Harvard is as biased as Teheran University", or "City College is as biased as Teheran University".

It's not even wrong; it's in reality not a claim at all. It's just an Israel-bashing automated reflex, by a man trained to write "it sucks!" whenever anything concerning Israel is mentioned.
 
Last edited:
It's a frakking college, not a think tank. Yeesh.

Their current faculty includes a former Minister of Foreign Affairs and a Former Education Minister. And the author of the IDF's Code of Conduct.

No...thank...you.

Find me a non-Israeli University's opinion on the link betweens Nazism and modern Iran.
 

From that link:

Whereas in the past, similar websites were filtered and removed from Iran's global network, during the past year and a half it seems the Islamic Republic has not acted with the same level of vigilance against racist manifestations of Iranian ultra-nationalism in its virtual domain. Many Iranian pro-Nazi virtual communities are advocating an ideology of racial supremacy that denigrates Arab-Muslims and Muslims of other non-Aryan ethnic groups, a position which stands in diametric opposition to the pan-Islamic legacy of Ayatollah Khomeini and the Islamic Revolution. Moreover, some of these groups openly support the establishment of a secular Iranian state based on naional socialism that will exclude Islamic laws.

This is actually quite consistent with my position in this thread regarding the purpose of the current Iranian government's willingness to embrace neo-Nazi organizations: that it has far more to do with their interest in aligning forces with Fars/Persion ethnosupremacist groups and heavily anti-Semitic organizations for just those specific ideological reasons, and hardly anything to do with an Iranian government desire to actually implement other National Socialist ideological structures into their own rulership.

Because whatever else the veliyat-e-faqih-ruled government of the Islamic Republic of Iran is hoping to do by tacitly embracing these groups (or at least looking the other way for them), I'm pretty damn sure that "establish[ing] a secular Iranian state based on na[t]ional socialism that will exclude Islamic laws" is not high on their list of goals.

The article, though, sadly doesn't provide much in the way of analysis of these internet-Nazi-site trends in Iran, just providing a survey of the who and what. I'd like to see what they think about just what this trend means in the minds of the clerical rulers, and what they think the clerics' ultimate goal in all this really is.
 
Find me a non-Israeli University's opinion on the link betweens Nazism and modern Iran.

Quite conveniently, a book that's all about that topic has already been mentioned several times in this thread: Iran and the Challenge of Diversity: Islamic Fundamentalism, Aryanist Racism, and Democratic Struggles. And, in case you're worried about any undue Israeli influence here, it's written by Professor Alireza Asgharzadeh, an ethnically-Azerbaijani Iranian who actually participated in the 1979 revolution, and who is currently on the faculty of the Department of Sociology at York University, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The book itself was published by Palgrave Macmillan.
 
Find me a non-Israeli University's opinion on the link betweens Nazism and modern Iran.

You don't get to decide what studies "really count" based on your prejudices, hon.

Edited by jhunter1163: 
Edited for civility.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Quite conveniently, a book that's all about that topic has already been mentioned several times in this thread: Iran and the Challenge of Diversity: Islamic Fundamentalism, Aryanist Racism, and Democratic Struggles. And, in case you're worried about any undue Israeli influence here, it's written by Professor Alireza Asgharzadeh, an ethnically-Azerbaijani Iranian who actually participated in the 1979 revolution, and who is currently on the faculty of the Department of Sociology at York University, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The book itself was published by Palgrave Macmillan.

I read through the reviews. Interesting how they mention nothing about the Nazis.
 
I read through the reviews. Interesting how they mention nothing about the Nazis.

It helps to actually read the book. Here's some samples of where it addresses the Iranian/Nazi connection especially regarding the appeal that Hitler's Naziism had towards the ethnosupremacist segments of Iranian culture (segments which are still fully extant in the Islamic Republic of Iran to this day):

Page 87-88:
Under Reza Khan's rule, the officially sanctified Iranian history rapidly replaced the existing oral and written histories of various ethnic groups and nationalities. Based on the dominant racist ideology, all peoples living in Iran were to have the common "Aryan ancestry." The non-Persian nationalities were written new histories in line with an Aryanist racist ideology. They were not encouraged to be proud of who they were, because according to the dominant ideology, their culture and heritage were nothing of which to be proud. They were required to be assimilated to "the superior Aryan/Persian race and culture," and if they did not acknowledge "the superiority of the Aryan/Persian race," they would then be subject to marginalization, humiliation, and exclusion.

...

Reza Khan's racism echoed the racist ideology of European fascism and Nazism, as he came to identify the Persian minority as the sole founder of civilization on the Iranian plateau and called on non-Persian ethnic groups to abandon their culture and heritage for the supposedly superior Aryan/Persian culture and language. The Persian tongue was elevated to the status of Iran's national language, replacing all other tongues. To read and write in non-Farsi languages became prohibited, and those other languages were officially identified as "criminalized" tongues.

Page 92:
The Nazis found a favorable climate among the Iranian elite to spread fascistic and racist propaganda. The Nazi propaganda machine advocated the (supposedly) common Aryan ancestry of "the two Nations." In order to further cultivate racist tendencies, in 1936 the Reich Cabinet issued a special decree exempting Iranians from the restrictions of the Nuremberg Laws on the grounds that they were "pure-blooded Aryans" (Lenczowski, 1944, p 160). In 1939, the Nazis provided Persians with what they called a German Scientific Library. The library contained over 7,500 books carefully selected "to convince Iranian readers...of the kinship between the National Socialist Reich and the 'Aryan Culture' of Iran" (Lenczowski, 1944, p 161).

Page 93:
It is important to note that the infatuation with Nazism and Aryanism was not limited to official circles. The ideology of Aryan racial superiority was nurtured and advocated by a vast majority of Persian elites and intellectuals. Even some members of non-Persian minority groups were eager to identify themselves with the Nazis and the superior Aryan race.

(the above paragraph, by the way, precedes the quote that Toontown falsely attributed to Reza Shah earlier in this thread)

Page 105:
The two Pahlavi monarchs ruled Iran for over half a century. Throughout their reign, they managed to establish a number of fallacies in state and nation building that continued to flourish well past their era, defining in a very narrow sense the perimeters of Iranianness, the status of national/official language, and the notion of Iranian identity. If one could sum up the legacy that they left behind in terms of governance and nation-building, it should be the legacy of "one nation, one language, one country" slogan, a racist doctrine that still continues to haunt Iran and Iranians.

Page 109:
After the consolidation of Islamic rule, the highly romanticized rhetoric regarding racial and ethnic equality all but disappeared into thin air. Following the previous regime's racist doctrines, Farsi, the mother tongue Iran's Persian minority, was accorded the status of "national language" of all Iranians. Further, Farsi was elevated to the status of the "second language of Islam," following Arabic. This way, not only all non-Perisian Iranians had to learn Farsi but even non-Iranian Muslims were encouraged to learn and speak it (see also Meskoob, 1992). As a result, the language and culture of non-Persian nationalities such as Azeris, Kurds, Baluchs, Arabs, and Turkmens were subject to eradication and annihilation.

...

In a word, under the Islamic rule, racism and xenophobia continued to flourish in Iran, just as they had been under the Pahlavi regime.

In an interview with Professor Ashgarazadeh regarding his book, he stated

[T]he Iranian elite, scholars and government were not ready to give up on this notion of “Aryan race” so easily, even after the fall of Nazism and Fascism in Europe. They built up on Max Muller and others’ earlier definitions and refashioned a definition of Arya as a purely racial group, building a whole new literature on “Aryan race” and how the true Iranians were carriers of this “superior race’s” not only language and culture but also genes and blood. This racist ideology, of course, had serious ramifications for Iran’s non-Persian and non-Indo-European communities, namely the Turks and the Semites (Arabs and Jews) along with others.

...

In today’s Iran, just as throughout history, only the Persian ethnic group calls itself Persian. Irrespective of this, the Orientalist scholarship abroad still insists on calling all residents of Iran Persian, which is a clear case of epistemic violence against non-Persian communities. Anyway, this notion of fixed Aryan/Persian identity has been imposed on Iran with no consideration for diversity, social dynamism and historical evolution. This process still continues and the non-Persian communities are left with no choice except to adopt this “superior Aryan” identity by leaving behind their supposedly “savage and barbaric” heritage. This racism is reinforced through the education system, the media, as well as official and non-official literature produced in Persian language. In contemporary Iran then, Aryanism and Aryanization constitute the core of Iranian racism. We should also note that since 1979, Khomeinism and Shi’ist fundamentalism have been added to the existing Aryanist racism.
 
Last edited:
Are you sure no evil Israelies helped write that book, ANTPogo? Perhaps it's all a mossad conspiracy to smear Iran. Why, perhaps the author had actually met some evil Jooooooooos in Canada.

I suggest only posting proof of Iran's Nazi past from sources in, say, Sudan, or perhaps Syria. We wouldn't want any possible Israeli influence to contaminate the truth, you know.
 
Ahem. There has been a spate of incivility in this thread. I am not going to infract anyone because if I did, in the interest of fairness, I would have to infract everyone. Further incivility, though, will have consequences. Remember where you are, and be civil and polite. Thank you.
ETA: In addition, a whole whack of off-topic and/or bickering posts have been split to Abandon All Hope. Stick to the topic of this thread, please, and note: the topic is not Israel. - LashL
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I find it highly peculiar that Iran supposedly became a Nazi emulating state, and yet still had good diplomatic and economic and EVEN military relations with a certain non-Muslim country in the Middle East, up until the late 1970s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Israel_relations#Pre-revolution_relations

I don't think it's all that peculiar at all. After the fall of the Nazi regime in WWII and the total discrediting of its ideology among the Western powers that supported Muhammad Shah (remember, Reza Shah was actually overthrown in favor of his son during the 1941 invasion), the postwar Iranian racist Aryan ideology reverted back to a pretty much standard ethnosupremacist doctrine, with the Fars/Persians as the "superior culture" among Iranians. The anti-Semitism of the Nazis became, if not totally subsumed, at least fairly irrelevant to the Shah's rule.

This is not to say that Jews weren't oppressed and suppressed in Pahlavi-era Iran. Just that it was simply part and parcel of the general ethnosupremacist nature of the ruling minority, and didn't single Jews out for special animosity the way Hitler's ideology did. Plus, since the 1953 coup, the Shah was pretty much dependent on the Western countries, who also supported Israel against its Arab State enemies. The combination of having strong allies-in-common and the lack of any sense of cultural and/or ethnic solidarity with Israel's enemies makes it eminently sensible to me that Israel and Pahlavi-ruled Iran would have close ties.

However, by the time the '79 revolution rolled around, the animosity between Israel (and Jews) and Arab states (and Muslims) had been going on for decades, and through several wars. When the Islamic Republic of Iran was established, it adopted that undercurrent of virulent anti-Semitism from the Arab Muslim world (though I confess I haven't read much about how and why that happened, so I can't say it was an actual adoption of Arab Muslim attitudes, or simply a re-awakening of the old tendencies from Reza Shah's era, once the Western-supported, secularist regime was toppled). Re-integrating that anti-Semitism into the always-existing Aryan ethnosupremacism basically made it inevitable that Iran would be sympathetic towards neo-Nazi groups.

In my humble opinion, anyways.
 
Last edited:
so from 1948 till 1979, supposed Iranian Nazism was dormant, but suddenly popped back into the air immediately after the revolution?

uh huh. forgive me if I an unconvinced.

Ahmedinajad may be a bigot and a Holocaust denier, but Iran is not a nation of Nazis and Nazi emulators.
 
so from 1948 till 1979, supposed Iranian Nazism was dormant, but suddenly popped back into the air immediately after the revolution?

uh huh. forgive me if I an unconvinced.

Ahmedinajad may be a bigot and a Holocaust denier, but Iran is not a nation of Nazis and Nazi emulators.

It all relates to just what aspects of Naziism were the ones that appealed to those Iranians that embraced it. Even Naziism is a complex enough ideology (in terms of structure, not depth of philosophy) that it's not an everything-or-nothing proposition.

Reza Shah was sympathetic to Hitler, because Hitler's views on "Aryan supremacy" matched very well with Reza Shah's own views. However, while this sympathy allowed Nazi Germany to make inroads into Iran, the non-supremacist aspects of the ideology did not gain nearly as much traction, simply because that's not what the Iranians really cared about.

That's why, from 1948 to 1979, the anti-Semitic aspects of Naziism did not remain prevalent in Iranian social and governmental policy, because the Iranians cared more about the "Aryan ethnosupremacism" aspects. And in Iran, that meant focusing on all the non-Persian minorities, of which Iranian Jews were just one among many. The Shah didn't single out the Jews, because they weren't worth singling out - Iranian racist ideology was simply not built around the framework of anti-Semitism the way Hitler's racist ideology was. And so, without the strong, active, propaganda influence of a strong, active Nazi regime, Nazi-esque anti-Semitic policies didn't exist in Iran because they didn't matter to Iran and its own particular idea of what "Aryan supremacism" meant (which, despite similarities, was not really what Hitler meant by the term).

That's also why, in the post-1979 era, when anti-Semitism showed up again, it expressed itself as neo-Nazi sympathies. The anti-Semitism of the Islamic Republic wasn't the anti-Semitism of Hitler, but the anti-Semitism of a Muslim state that was simply one among a number of other Muslim states, locked into a cycle of conflict with the Jewish state of Israel. But Iran had that long history of Aryan supremacism that the Arab Muslims states did not have, so when the now-strongly-anti-Semitic Aryan-supremacist state of Iran went looking for people who shared its views to ally with, they found strongly-anti-Semitic Aryan-supremacist groups already there, waiting for them: neo-Nazis.

EDIT: They don't share the same type of "Aryan supremacism", nor the same type of anti-Semitism. But they're congruous enough in both aspects to make it a lot more understandable as to why they're allying in this fashion.

In short, Iran didn't simply hide and incubate Naziism during the 1948-1979 years, until it burst forth in a brand-new infection during the modern Islamic Republic era. It's that the particular form of autocthonian "Aryan" ethnocentrism of Iran makes the Aryan-supremacist ideologies of Naziism more palatable in that country than it would be in other countries that don't have a history derived from the same 19th-century crackpot racist and ethnic Aryan-origin theories that also gave rise to Naziism.

Throw in some virulent anti-Semitism (and a reason for it to be so widespread, such as linking it to a sense of anti-Westernism and pro-Islam identity among the populace, with the state of Israel as a focus for those sentiments), and the Iranian government's tacitly endorsing neo-Nazi websites and groups starts to sound even less surprising.
 
Last edited:
I think I understand now. Iranians are Nazis, and therefore should suffer the same fate as Nazi Germany did after WW2. Millions of them should be executed, their cities turned to rubble, their nation occupied for decades. We shall turn Iran into a modern capitalist American-style democracy. And they will love us for it.
 
Please address my arguments, and not your strawman.

I'm just bringing this discussion to its logical conclussion. We now all agree that the Iranians are Nazis. I have simply stated what should be done with Nazis.
 
I'm just bringing this discussion to its logical conclussion. We now all agree that the Iranians are Nazis.

Except Iranians aren't Nazis. They are sympathetic, currently, towards Neo-Nazis because of similar goals regarding Jews, and a history that makes certain aspects of Nazi ethnosupremacist ideology compatible with certain aspects of Iranian ethnosupremacist ideology (and the two ideologies have intersected and diverged at various points throughout this history).

But Iranians aren't Nazis, and never have been.
 
Last edited:
Except Iranians aren't Nazis. They are sympathetic, currently, towards Neo-Nazis because of similar goals regarding Jews,

sympathetic to Neo-Nazis, Nazi party members, what's the difference.

the Iranians seek the genocide of all Jews on Earth, just like the Nazis. Therefore they should suffer the same fate as Nazi Germany.

I hope the nukes start falling within an hour.
 

Back
Top Bottom