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Merged Electric Sun Theory (Split from: CME's, active regions and high energy flares)

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I won't bother rounding up citations, but *ALL* of them accept the tenets of gravity theory as far as I know. Bruce, Dungey, Peratt and Alfven all used a "plasma" solar model. Only Birkeland's model was a 'cathode' solar model that could be either plasma or a solid. AFAIK, Bruce, Dungey both began with a 'standard solar model' in terms of the total energy output. Only Peratt and Alfven's views *REQUIRED* an external power source. There's not much information as to how much energy would necessarily need to come from an external source in the case of Alfven (or Peratt) AFAIK. To my knowledge *ALL* of them presume at least *SOME* local energy production. None of them, not even Birkeland ruled out fusion as an energy source.

Your colleague, Mr. Mann, claims that gravity does not exist or is insignificant (depending on which post you choose). He also claims that either there is no solar fusion or it is unimportant as a solar energy source. Do you disavow these opinions? Just curious.
 
Your colleague, Mr. Mann, claims that gravity does not exist or is insignificant (depending on which post you choose). He also claims that either there is no solar fusion or it is unimportant as a solar energy source. Do you disavow these opinions? Just curious.

I do not necessarily agree with those opinions if that is what you are asking me.
 
That's good! I noticed that he also trashed plate tectonics recently because he thinks earthquakes are caused by electrical forces.:confused::eek::confused:

I'll be honest and admit that I do have "faith" that when a "grand unified field theory" is finally found, it will reconcile plasma physics with gravity theory and it will certainly involved the EM fields. :)
 
I'll be honest and admit that I do have "faith" that when a "grand unified field theory" is finally found, it will reconcile plasma physics with gravity theory and it will certainly involved the EM fields. :)

I don't need faith to be certain a workable GUT will not reconcile plasma physics with gravity (whatever you believe that may mean).
 
You might want to read the paper's conclusions before you get too excited.

I already saw that. :) I'm a little disappointed he didn't use Birkeland's cathode model and chose Chapman's sort of model instead. I did however find it to be an interesting approach. I was shocked anything like that had even been done as far back as the 30's to be honest.
 
Wheatland:

The observation that current patterns in active regions are typically unneutralized has important consequences for flare physics and more generally for our understanding of magnetic fields on the Sun, as outlined by Melrose (1991, 1995) and Leka et al. (1996). First, it indicates that twisting and shearing of the footpoints of coronal magnetic fields are not responsible for the large-scale currents that are observed and, hence, that the in situ storage model for flares is invalid. Magnetic flux emerges at the photosphere with large-scale electric currents already flowing in it and with free energy already present. In the in situ storage picture, observed currents close at or just below the photosphere. Where do they close in the new picture? The latitudinal dependence of the sense of current helicity cannot be explained by standard dynamo theory operating in the bulk of the convection zone, but may be explained by an alternative dynamo model operating at the base of the convection zone (Seehafer 1990). This points to the observed currents being generated (and closing) deep within the Sun, at or near the base of the convection zone. As argued by Melrose (1991), the long inductive time associated with such an extended current system precludes change on the short timescale of a flare, and so current will be conserved during a flare, an important consideration that is missing from most flare models. Melrose (1997) has presented a model for flaring due to reconnection between current carrying loops subject to conservation of both magnetic flux and total
current.

The size of the observed currents also raises interesting questions concerning the appearance of large voltages if the current changes or if the current path changes. Assuming the change occurs on a timescale q, there is an associated electromotive force (EMF) V DL I/q, where L is the inductance of the circuit. The inductance may be estimated by L Dk0 lB100 H for a circuit of length lB108 m. If the current flowing through the corona (IB1012 A) or the inductance changes substantially on the timescale for flux emergence (qB105 s), enormous voltages (V B109 V) are implied.

Emphasis mine.
 
Note that Wheatland's data is consistent with Alfven's circuit theories, it's consistent with the observations seen in SDO in 1600 and 1700A where the photosphere "lights up' like a Christmas tree around the base of the loops, and it's consistent with that white light image of the photosphere that we looked at earlier in another thread:

15%20April%202001%20WL.gif


Notice how the surface of the photosphere is lit up around the bases of the coronal loops. That is entirely consistent with Wheatland's findings.
 
Wheatland:

[...]

Emphasis mine.


We're still waiting for the quantitative objective evidence that supports the claim that electrical discharges are or cause solar flares and CMEs. Of course it is possible, since there has been no such evidence presented in nearly 1000 posts, that the claim has been abandoned.
 
Note that Wheatland's data is consistent with Alfven's circuit theories, it's consistent with the observations seen in SDO in 1600 and 1700A where the photosphere "lights up' like a Christmas tree around the base of the loops, and it's consistent with that white light image of the photosphere that we looked at earlier in another thread:

[qimg]http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/images/15%20April%202001%20WL.gif[/qimg]

Notice how the surface of the photosphere is lit up around the bases of the coronal loops. That is entirely consistent with Wheatland's findings.


"Like a Christmas tree" isn't a number. In fact, believing one is seeing some particular thing when looking at any picture isn't quantitative, and it's certainly not objective. It is in fact, by definition, subjective. Since Wheatland's paper was expressed in quantitative terms, and guessing that things look like sparks and discharges and Christmas trees isn't quantitative at all, there's nothing even remotely consistent with Wheatland's findings. It would be a lie, or at least a gross misrepresentation of the truth, to claim it is.
 
Electric Currents as the Main Cause of Coronal and Flare Activity in the Sun and in Many Late-Type Stars
I have no access to the full paper
The abstract has this as a suggestion from the author backed up by "evidence from observations occurring in solar and stellar upper atmosphere plasmas that resemble in their appearance phenomena that are the consequence of electric currents flowing in highly ionized plasmas."

MM: You obviously have full access to the paper since you must have read it. Could you post it here?
 
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000ApJ...532..616W

FYI (FMI), this particular paper is related to events seen in 1600A and 1700A as "current carrying" loops come and and through the photosphere.
Are Electric Currents in Solar Active Regions Neutralized?
The answer according to Wheatland is yes.

FYI: You are wrong. The paper does not mention any events seen in 1600A and 1700A images. It contains magnetograms derived from the Fe
5324A line.
It is not related to your "I see bnunnies in the clouds" logic of seeing "current carrying" loops in any solar images. Actual science shows that these are magnetic loops emerging through the photosphere (coronal loops).
 
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