Should/could denial of evolution be a criminal offence?

[MikeMangum]

The reason that some states outlaw Holocaust denial in some forms is not because it's offensive it's because most of the groups which perpetuate Holocaust denial take the position that "the Holocaust never happened, but wouldn't it be great if it did", the laws are an attempt to stop those groups gaining legitimacy and power.

The greatest way to stop those groups gaining legitimacy and power is to let them speak freely.

 

[Fnord]

The greatest way to stop those groups gaining legitimacy and power is to let them speak freely.

That makes sense ... when was the last time anyone was taken seriously for their 911 / Chemtrail / Microchip / Extraterrestrial-Among-Us conspiracy theories?

 

[Spindrift]

That makes sense ... when was the last time anyone was taken seriously for their 911 / Chemtrail / Microchip / Extraterrestrial-Among-Us conspiracy theories?

The last time ericsnow listened to Alex Jones?

 

[Bishadi]

But evidently you were in WWII and in Gaza, since you can provide numbers for those.

Admit it, Bishadi: you don't think the Holocaust happened.

If people do not learn, then no evolution of understanding.

If you like to believe opinion and maintain a bias over comprehending and learning the truth of matters, then you choose to break the law.


ie.... should/could denial of evolution be a criminal offense? Absolutely.

Life evolves with time, so does knowledge, why break the law of reality just to be a self centered bigot of complacent acceptances and beliefs?

If facts over ride the old BS, then no matter what, the evolution is exhibited in what is real, to be understood.

I beg, it should be against the law to misrepresent. But any can have an opinion. A mind of responsibility would not be capable of false witness.

 

[Craig4]

We don't want to start regulating belief. We need to regulate the intersection of belief and public life. If someone chooses to believe in creationism that's their business. What we want to do is regulate what actions can be done with that belief. Clearly we don't want that belief taught in schools. We don't want that belief to impact public policy. The short answer is believe any weird thing you want but the second that it enters public life your beliefs just became fair game.

 

[Fnord]

First you say...

We don't want to start regulating belief...

Then you say...

Clearly we don't want that belief taught in schools.

Which should it be?

Should belief be unregulated?

Or should belief be regulated to not be taught in schools?

Or should be we free to believe what we want, as long as it is what is taught in school?

 

[I Am The Scum]

First you say...

Then you say...

Which should it be?

Should belief be unregulated?

Or should belief be regulated to not be taught in schools?

Or should be we free to believe what we want, as long as it is what is taught in school?

You seem to be confused. Lessons are not the same things as beliefs.

We teach our children that 1+1 = 2. At the same time, they are free to disagree.

 

[iknownothing]

ww2 occurred. Holocaust IS just an opinion!

No. Not an opinion. It is a matter of historical fact. All history is a matter of facts. You can disagree on the interpretation of the facts, or the accuracy or completeness of the facts, but you can't call them opinions!

 

[jakesteele]

I say kill 'em all and let Xenu sort it out!

 

[Fnord]

You seem to be confused. Lessons are not the same things as beliefs.

No confusion here. Lessons are not the same as beliefs, but lessons can be about beliefs, unless regulated otherwise.

It's like telling a soldier that he is free to have long hair if he wants, but that he must have all of his haircuts by the on-base barber, who is required by regulation to cut all men's hair to a length of 1 inch or less.

Thus, it is literally not the soldier's choice in hair length that is regulated, but the actions of the barber -- just as it would literally not be the student's choice of belief that would regulated, but the actions of the person teaching the lessons. Both end up regulating what people may or may not choose for themselves.

 

[brodski]

I think in the case of "hate crime" it's the fact that the result of the crime is no different than it would be without the added descriptor

I disagree, non-"hate crimes" (also known as "I really really like you sort of crimes"* ) are usually targeted at specific individuals, the purpose and effect of crimes which may be classified as hate crimes have the added dimension of intimidating or attempting to intimidate large groups of people.

The result of the crime for the specific individuals may be the same or similar, the effect on wider society can be much worse.




* Copyright Gene Hunt.

 

[Bishadi]

No. Not an opinion. It is a matter of historical fact.

then darwin made history.

TO deny 'evolution' should be a crime punishable by reparations to any that does 'believe'.

All history is a matter of facts.

and charles manson was a god to some idiots, in fact.

You can disagree on the interpretation of the facts, or the accuracy or completeness of the facts, but you can't call them opinions!

some even died believing jesus was a god too!


So which facts of history are you maintaining?


Ww2 was a horrible war to millions, i read that about 10% of the people who died were jewish observers. Did you find something different, or do you just read the stories of what happened to the few, while the other 90% have no relevance to THE war?


I have family who was in that war, where do i get my reparations?

and if you deny evolutions, cut me a check and then cut your hair (shave your head bald); in penance (i guess the word is)

 

[DC]

then darwin made history.

TO deny 'evolution' should be a crime punishable by reparations to any that does 'believe'.





and charles manson was a god to some idiots, in fact.



some even died believing jesus was a god too!


So which facts of history are you maintaining?


Ww2 was a horrible war to millions, i read that about 10% of the people who died were jewish observers. Did you find something different, or do you just read the stories of what happened to the few, while the other 90% have no relevance to THE war?


I have family who was in that war, where do i get my reparations?

and if you deny evolutions, cut me a check and then cut your hair (shave your head bald); in penance (i guess the word is)

somehow you seem to care for everyone just not for those 10%, how come?

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

On Planet X we spell it criminalized.

 

[Bishadi]

somehow you seem to care for everyone just not for those 10%, how come?

and back at you............... you defend the self 'chosen ones' but not the rest of the innocents, why? Ie.... judaic synagogues declared war on germany well before any ww2 broke out. So if they were the first to declar war and yet only 10% of the deaths were of that belief, then it seems, the war was not about a religious divide.


I wonder why so many forget, the other 90% as being relevant to reparations?

i mean, can i have my own country and have the american public pay for my religious preferences and arm MY people and assist in building a concentration camp (gaza) for any who dont believe me?

 

[Jason V]

That doesn't make sense. Hitler's propaganda against Jews was often very silly. John Wayne Gacy dressed up as a clown. People regularly urinate on high-voltage train tracks. Silly can be just as dangerous as solemn - sometimes more so.

I can't be bothered to get into an argument about the semantics of the word silly - needless to say most people have a sense of humour failure about John Wayne Gacy and so would not describe him as being silly.

 

[iknownothing]

then darwin made history.

I don't know where you're going with this. Yes, he "made" history, in the sense that we study him and the history of the theory of evolution.

and charles manson was a god to some idiots, in fact.

Yes. And? A few people followed Manson, that is a fact. The fact that they did so, does not make their beliefs about him factual beliefs.

some even died believing jesus was a god too!

What does that have to do with the difference between fact and opinion? Again, it is a fact that people have died because of their opinion that Jesus is God.

It is historical fact that yesterday was Wednesday. I might be of the opinion that yesterday was Sunday, but I would be wrong.

Ww2 was a horrible war to millions, i read that about 10% of the people who died were jewish observers. Did you find something different, or do you just read the stories of what happened to the few, while the other 90% have no relevance to THE war?

How do other war deaths mean that the Holocaust didn't happen?

I have family who was in that war, where do i get my reparations?

Huh?

and if you deny evolutions, cut me a check and then cut your hair (shave your head bald); in penance (i guess the word is)

Huh?

 

[Mirrorglass]

I can't be bothered to get into an argument about the semantics of the word silly - needless to say most people have a sense of humour failure about John Wayne Gacy and so would not describe him as being silly.

"Silly" isn't synonymous to "funny", which is the point. But you're right, it is just semantics, so there's no need to get into a debate over it.

 

[Bishadi]

I don't know where you're going with this. Yes, he "made" history, in the sense that we study him and the history of the theory of evolution.

In effect, in reality, his contributions to mankind, live in us all, literally.

Yes. And? A few people followed Manson, that is a fact. The fact that they did so, does not make their beliefs about him factual beliefs.

i agree....

just as to this day, no one in education can define an evolution of a living structure, to the molecular level. Dont mean, the concept of evolution is wrong, but that da utter team of physicists are wacked with dark matters and particle waiving to them in accelerating waste of resources.

What does that have to do with the difference between fact and opinion? Again, it is a fact that people have died because of their opinion that Jesus is God.

In this case, jesus 'charged' that no one call him, that 'he' (matt 16:20), so whom is to blame but the opinions, created by self serving (older versions of a manson family)

It is historical fact that yesterday was Wednesday. I might be of the opinion that yesterday was Sunday, but I would be wrong.

and since today is today, keeping both feet on the ground to what YOU can witness, is all that reall matters.

Can you deny that knowledge evolves? Has your knowledge and LIFE evolved since you were an infant?

Can you combine with an opposite gendered partner and create a new evolution of your life, with that combining of sperm/egg?

Will you live in that 'cell division' (procreation) as your next generation?


All of them are YES questions.

What is good, facing the implications of reality over belief or maintaining belief over comprhension? ie.... if your most cherished belief was made true, would you be capable to understand it? Would you want to?

How do other war deaths mean that the Holocaust didn't happen?

holocaust is the opinion, just as jesus as christ, or a messiah will come or even that you will not have an opportunity to actually know...... are OPINIONS.

I think you can face reality. I think that jesus was not the messofaman, nor that ww2 was just about jews

gaza is a holocaust, currently in existence

imagine what this world would be like, if them folks were christians or even jews (within fences for almost half a century and still there)

Huh?



Huh?

 

[Ziggurat]

imagine what this world would be like, if them folks were christians or even jews (within fences for almost half a century and still there)

There are Christians in Gaza. And they're being horribly persecuted... but not by Israel.