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Hard vs Soft Martial Arts

And "Judo" Gene Lebell literally made him crap his pants.
 
I'm pretty sure the only thing Seagal's special powers only involve locating the nearest Arby's.
 
How did I miss that article? Seanbaby's referenced Bullshido a few times in the past as well so we're mutual fans.
 
Well sure, there's plenty of "hard" in the "gentle way".

In Judo, as with western wrestling, you often set your opponent up for a throw with a pretty "hard" maneuver in order to get him reacting the way you want.

So, if you push hard before ippon seoinage (one arm throw), and he falls for it by pushing back hard, then he's going to fly big-time.

Th "ju" in that circumstance isn't even something initiated by the opponent. It is initiated by you. It's using your opponent's force against him, but conning him into executing that force with initial force of your own.

There's a great deal of hand fighting for position and grip preliminary to that as well, which is plenty "hard".

So it goes beyond being careful about the definition of "Ju", but also not buying into the notion that you are this sissy anti-violence protestor that only neutralizes aggression directed at you. There's often an awful lot of "hard" going on long before the opponent is in the position of imbalance that you finally take advantage of.

Not to mention submission holds. Not really very dainty.
 
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Phrost said:
Kano's method was akin to sharpening a sword with a rock whereas Uesheba's approach was more like beating the sword against the rock until it was blunt and useless.
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But...but...Ueshiba beat 12 men armed with swords with his bare hands after being in a trance. I know it's true because he wrote it down, along with ripping trees out of the ground and telepathically knowing when bullets were coming when he single-handedly won the Sino-Japanese war...
 
MattusMaximus said:
I heard a story long ago about this, but I never followed up on it. Do you have a reference?
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Due to Seagal lawyering up immediately after it happened, there's no actual documentation on the incident. The information seems to have leaked out from other witnesses from the set where it happened.

Basically, the short version is that Seagal was making boasts on the set of one of his films that Lebell happened to be working as a stuntman. The boast was that nobody could submit him and/or that he could escape any hold.

Well Gene is infamous for his rear naked choke; so much so that people at his seminars volunteer for the privilege of being choked out by him. So when he heard of Segal's claim, he obliged, putting him in the hold. A few seconds later, Seagal not only went to sleep, but soiled himself.

When asked about this incident, Lebell apparently just smiles.
 
MattusMaximus said:
I heard a story long ago about this, but I never followed up on it. Do you have a reference?
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Hearsay evidence is what I've come across.. but from Dan Inosanto, one of Gene Lebell's good friends. AND we had to really pull that from him. Inosanto does not like to talk bad about anyone.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
But...but...Ueshiba beat 12 men armed with swords with his bare hands after being in a trance. I know it's true because he wrote it down, along with ripping trees out of the ground and telepathically knowing when bullets were coming when he single-handedly won the Sino-Japanese war...
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Yeah, I remember years ago getting into an argument with a guy in my aikido dojo who was all into the "O'Sensei had special powers so he could see the bullets coming before they were fired" & that related goofiness.

I asked the guy: "How'd he know the bullets were coming?"

He said: "There was a flash of light."

I said: "What kind of guns were they?"

He said: "Muskets."

I then patiently explained to him that with many styles of musket that there can be a pretty long delay between the flash of the powder and the actual bullet firing out of the end of the weapon. Thus, with some luck and a decent reaction time, someone can get out of the way of the bullets.

But no, he wasn't having any of it. He kept insisting it had to be that O'Sensei had some kind of "divine" powers or other garbage like that :rolleyes:
 
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Phrost said:
Due to Seagal lawyering up immediately after it happened, there's no actual documentation on the incident. The information seems to have leaked out from other witnesses from the set where it happened.

Basically, the short version is that Seagal was making boasts on the set of one of his films that Lebell happened to be working as a stuntman. The boast was that nobody could submit him and/or that he could escape any hold.

Well Gene is infamous for his rear naked choke; so much so that people at his seminars volunteer for the privilege of being choked out by him. So when he heard of Segal's claim, he obliged, putting him in the hold. A few seconds later, Seagal not only went to sleep, but soiled himself.

When asked about this incident, Lebell apparently just smiles.
Click to expand...

The version I heard was that Seagal was boasting that he couldn't be clinched and taken down, and the judo guy (I didn't know it was Lebell) proceeded to taken him down in a clinch multiple times to Seagal's embarrassment.
 
AlaskaBushPilot said:
Well sure, there's plenty of "hard" in the "gentle way".

In Judo, as with western wrestling, you often set your opponent up for a throw with a pretty "hard" maneuver in order to get him reacting the way you want.

So, if you push hard before ippon seoinage (one arm throw), and he falls for it by pushing back hard, then he's going to fly big-time.

Th "ju" in that circumstance isn't even something initiated by the opponent. It is initiated by you. It's using your opponent's force against him, but conning him into executing that force with initial force of your own.

There's a great deal of hand fighting for position and grip preliminary to that as well, which is plenty "hard".

So it goes beyond being careful about the definition of "Ju", but also not buying into the notion that you are this sissy anti-violence protestor that only neutralizes aggression directed at you. There's often an awful lot of "hard" going on long before the opponent is in the position of imbalance that you finally take advantage of.

Not to mention submission holds. Not really very dainty.
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Very well said.
 
Just found a guy that opened a studio here in town professing to teach...

EVERYTHING. like ever. :eye-poppi
 
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