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Wikileaks. Any comments?

ddt said:
I don't see why kidnapping (let's call it by its proper name) Assange would be CT territory. When you look at the CIA's and the US government's behaviour in, e.g., the El-Masri case, I don't see why the CIA wouldn't try to kidnap Assange as well, or murder him, or do anything else to render him inoperative.
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Then provide an example of how this could happen. Be sure to cite Holder's legal justification!

I'm sure once you try to do this you'll realize that yes, this is prisonplanet territory.
 
ddt said:
I don't see why kidnapping (let's call it by its proper name) Assange would be CT territory. When you look at the CIA's and the US government's behaviour in, e.g., the El-Masri case, I don't see why the CIA wouldn't try to kidnap Assange as well, or murder him, or do anything else to render him inoperative.
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Of course you can't. Your story needs a villain.

El-Masri was captured because he was mistaken with a suspected terrorist. Has the US Government done anything like that to a fake journalist? When has the CIA assassinated anyone?

What on Earth links Assange to El-Masri other than your own hopes and desires to make the US the villain? Seriously, that statement was as silly as the accusations Assange is a terrorist or a traitor.
 
gumboot said:
But it was based on believing that the group of people targeted were insurgents. You don't have to be armed to be a legitimate target. A little girl with a cellphone can be a 100% legitimate military target, depending on what she's doing with said cellphone.
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Let me add that the pilots did not know there was a little girl in that van. Had they known, they probably would not have fired on it (if history is a guide). Furthermore, they had no reason to suspect a child might be in the van. What right minded person would drive a van containing children into an area that was just hit with 30 mm cannon fire? Furthermore, the pilots had observed the van (or one looking just like it ... and what are the odds of it being different van?) driving right by the location where the insurgents gathered behind the building immediately prior to the initial attack on the insurgents. It's behavior was VERY suspicious.

gumboot said:
Welcome to the ugly, ugly face of modern war, brought to you courtesy of all the world's terrorists.
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Exactly.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12/05/wikileaks-ready-release-massive-insurance-file-shut/

Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder, has circulated across the internet an encrypted “poison pill” cache of uncensored documents suspected to include files on BP and Guantanamo Bay.
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He's just asking for it, isn't he? Now his life is probably more at risk from people who would like to see whatever those files contain than those who don't. I.e., more at risk from a crazy on the left … and there are plenty of those. Won't it be ironic if those governments he is now threatening have to put him into protective custody? :D
 
http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=4730

(2010-07-27) — Despite upbeat official assessments of the progress of Chelsea Clinton’s wedding plans, scores of documents just released by WikiLeaks reveal a starkly different picture behind the scenes.

… snip …

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said he felt a “moral obligation” to release the Clinton wedding papers, which reportedly cover everything from disagreements over rules of engagement, to specific intel about targeting ‘drones’ on the guest list.
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LOL!
 
WildCat said:
Then provide an example of how this could happen. Be sure to cite Holder's legal justification!

I'm sure once you try to do this you'll realize that yes, this is prisonplanet territory.
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Did the US ever come up with a legal justification for the couple of hundred times they tried to murder Fidel Castro? I don't see the relevance of whatever legal weasel words the AG has uttered.

Donal said:
Of course you can't. Your story needs a villain.

El-Masri was captured because he was mistaken with a suspected terrorist. Has the US Government done anything like that to a fake journalist? When has the CIA assassinated anyone?
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His capture, in Macedonia, could still be rated as a mistake. However, he had his passport on him and ascertaining his identity should have taken much less time than the 2-3 months it took. In the meantime, the CIA happily tortured him, while he denied being the one they took him for. When they at last found out they had the wrong man, what did they do? They kept him for two freaking months more, and then at last dropped him off, shabbily clothed and unkempt, penniless, in the middle of a forest in Albania, another country, to be apprehended by the Albanian border police.

Both Condi and Tenet were in the know, and they're nothing more than ordinary kidnappers and torturers. No apologies to El-Masri himself have been made, nor has any compensation been offered. That's not the way you handle a "mistake".

Donal said:
What on Earth links Assange to El-Masri other than your own hopes and desires to make the US the villain? Seriously, that statement was as silly as the accusations Assange is a terrorist or a traitor.
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When the US government handles a "mistake" as El-Masri as revolting as they did, indicates me that they won't have any compunction with trying to take out Assange or any other who in their view damages the image of the US in the world.
 
BeAChooser said:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12/05/wikileaks-ready-release-massive-insurance-file-shut/



He's just asking for it, isn't he? Now his life is probably more at risk from people who would like to see whatever those files contain than those who don't. I.e., more at risk from a crazy on the left … and there are plenty of those. Won't it be ironic if those governments he is now threatening have to put him into protective custody? :D
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It's a hollow threat. He'll release them regardless of what happens.
 
cornsail said:
You're shifting the blame. "All the world's terrorists" did not force the US military to gun down anyone suspected of aiding the enemy.
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Great argument!

When was Assange gunned down? I must have missed the news flash. Are you sure it wasn't the Russians? He was threatening to dump on them, you know.
 
EeneyMinnieMoe said:
I know, right?

Maybe it wasn't "fair" of the site to publish these documents- but nobody put the words into their mouths.

They shouldn't have written that 14-year-old girl crap in the first place, even if they did think that no unauthorized person would ever read it. That's no excuse for rudely and snidely talking behind people's backs.

Although it was very amusing to realize that diplomats gossip about their colleagues just like everyone else does. Gives you an unexpected window of insight into the world of high stakes international diplomacy. And some of their comments were hilarious.
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The point is, the government is being hung by the same evidence that they use to hang ordinary citizens and they don't like it. It is fine to throw someone in jail, fire them, or otherwise ruin their lives with personal communications they never expected to have made public but it isn't okay to do it to government officials.

There is a huge double standard here which is one of the reasons I have come to believe that the U.S. really is a Monarchy with their own Royal and aristocratic class that the peons will protect because "it's what you do for god and country."

crucify these ****ers just like they crucify everyone else.
 
qayak said:
The point is, the government is being hung by the same evidence that they use to hang ordinary citizens and they don't like it. It is fine to throw someone in jail, fire them, or otherwise ruin their lives with personal communications they never expected to have made public but it isn't okay to do it to government officials.
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You really don't see the revealing of private communications to prove actual crimes as being different from revealing private communications to prove... well, not crimes?
 
Toontown said:
Great argument!

When was Assange gunned down? I must have missed the news flash. Are you sure it wasn't the Russians? He was threatening to dump on them, you know.
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W. T. F.

I didn't say the US has this policy that gumboot seems to think we do.
 
ddt said:
Did the US ever come up with a legal justification for the couple of hundred times they tried to murder Fidel Castro? I don't see the relevance of whatever legal weasel words the AG has uttered.
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You know most of those are stories, right? The idiot Kennedy brothers tried to get the CIA into the assassination business, but its too impractical. I know there lots of silly books and a documentary, but the source of most of those are Castro's people.


His capture, in Macedonia, could still be rated as a mistake. However, he had his passport on him and ascertaining his identity should have taken much less time than the 2-3 months it took. In the meantime, the CIA happily tortured him, while he denied being the one they took him for. When they at last found out they had the wrong man, what did they do? They kept him for two freaking months more, and then at last dropped him off, shabbily clothed and unkempt, penniless, in the middle of a forest in Albania, another country, to be apprehended by the Albanian border police.

Both Condi and Tenet were in the know, and they're nothing more than ordinary kidnappers and torturers. No apologies to El-Masri himself have been made, nor has any compensation been offered. That's not the way you handle a "mistake".


When the US government handles a "mistake" as El-Masri as revolting as they did, indicates me that they won't have any compunction with trying to take out Assange or any other who in their view damages the image of the US in the world.
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So, no hits or anything on slacktavist celebrities posing as journalists. Gotcha.
 
ddt said:
...
I fully understand Skeptic Ginger's point: it certainly sounded very much like you denied the whole extraordinary rendition business. Good to hear you don't.
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Thanks for noticing.

We are not responsible for what you wrote, WildCat. You are. So don't go trying to weasel out of it. You made a mistake whether it was about how you posted something or whether you tried to deny Extraordinary Rendition existed (maybe you forgot about it, how do we know?)

And I don't care if you are now clarifying your story or changing it. Bottom line is don't blame other people. Take a little responsibility for your mistake.
 
Also that german donations to rebuilding projects in Afghanistan were/are subject to a 15% "administrative fee" by the US military that was so hard to explain for the US diplomats that they cabled home for advice.
 
What's funny is that I don't really want more transparency. Why? Because I want my country to be nasty and effective. I want it spying on anyone and everyone so that they have the dirt and can strong arm others into doing what we want. Information is powerful in this context.

OMG! It's almost like Assange knew that!
 
Ziggurat said:
You really don't see the revealing of private communications to prove actual crimes as being different from revealing private communications to prove... well, not crimes?
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A lot of private communication are used not against crimes but in order to justify firings, reprimands, demotions, etc., but let's play your silly game. A communication is either private or it isn't. If these types of documents can be used for anything other than to communicate thoughts to another person then they all should be no matter who sends them.

I just find it ridiculous the number of people who hold their leaders to such low standards. No different than religious people constantly justifying the atrocities of their churches.
 
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