Unemployment

[kuroyume0161]

Let me just say this. I hope that all of you unemployed losers find work so that you can pay your fair share of taxes. I'm the one that's paying for you to suck of the government boob and I would appreciate some help.

I find it absolutely disgusting that a person like myself who moved to this country with a suitcase and a dream gets slammed on a regular basis just because we are successful. It's envy and class warfare and frankly I'm getting sick of it.

To be a bit unpolite and blunt, it is exactly because of people like you - foreigners who move here and are successful, as well as immigrants from, oh, I don't know, south of the USA, and outsourcing - that this situation has been exacerbated. To insinuate that unemployed or underemployed people, in the worst economy since the Great Depression, are 'losers' or 'lazy' requires a good scolding. Stop being an insensitive, unempathetic ass...

Thanks, I feel better now.

 

[ServiceSoon]

Ha - no. I'm a 47 year old MBA with an undergrad economics degree who works in finance for a fortune 100 company. Pretty far from "the education industry" as you put it.

It was your claim that college grads are more motivated to work. We're awaiting your evidence supporting this claim.

Imagine my surprise.

Unfortunately the bls statistics only give the age groups 16-19 and 20-death. I tried.

Considering you have an MBA, I understand why you say education is so important. Especially considering what appears to be a successful life you've lead.

Utility counts very little in making policy decisions these days.

Which right are you talking about here?

The right of the extra wealthy to more easily get more wealthy?
The right of the unemployed to not eat?
The right of the people to expect their elected representatives to help sort out the mess that our elected representatives helped make?

It seems to me that a lot of the things people like Drkitten says are based on their utility, ergo what's best for everybody.

The poor have the same right to succeed as the rich do. Be careful how you respond; you don't want to belittle NewtonTrino success.

The unemployed are eligible for food stamps.

If you have a better solution to democracy the world awaits your thesis.

Bah, "rights" are just groups of things with utilitarian weights that vary in a rather complex way...but heck, what isn't?

That said, gotta agree with Fishbob. Policy is pretty crappy these days by any measure except one that assigns positive value to crap.

I believe that the single most important political philosophy is pragmatism, but this only takes us so far. Still, it's principles that I hold so dear.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Let me just say this. I hope that all of you unemployed losers find work so that you can pay your fair share of taxes. I'm the one that's paying for you to suck of the government boob and I would appreciate some help.

I find it absolutely disgusting that a person like myself who moved to this country with a suitcase and a dream gets slammed on a regular basis just because we are successful. It's envy and class warfare and frankly I'm getting sick of it.

Well, you make "big bucks", why don't you hire someone?

If you think it's simply easy to find a job, you're just silly.

 

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

So. Anyone here hiring?

Honestly, yes. Where I am it's impossible to find anyone to do anything. Every business is hiring. There just are not enough workers. We've had two restaurants close up shop because they could not find wait staff, cooks, or cleaning people. The only reason the fast food places are still open is because they brought over a bunch of Filipino immigrants. There is absolutely no reason for anyone here to be unemployed if they are able-bodied. It's bonkers. It will be probably a year before I can get someone to do my eavestroughs. It's at least a month's wait for a plumber or electrician to come out for a minor issue.

We need you Americans to come here. I seriously urge folks to consider relocation. I am not kidding. If you are a mechanic, let me know, I can get you a job today.

 

[Magyar]

Do you have references for these numbers? I'd like to read more about this.

Here you go

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/national-interest/item/8460-the-party-of-scrooge

 

[NewtonTrino]

Well, you make "big bucks", why don't you hire someone?

If you think it's simply easy to find a job, you're just silly.

Anyone who is able bodied and able minded that wants to work can find a way to make some money. It's always been that way and it will always be that way. At least in america anyone can start a business for example, it's not like you have to bribe someone to get a license like in some countries.

 

[NewtonTrino]

To be a bit unpolite and blunt, it is exactly because of people like you - foreigners who move here and are successful, as well as immigrants from, oh, I don't know, south of the USA, and outsourcing - that this situation has been exacerbated.

What have you been smoking? I employ a bunch of americans and have added a ton of money to the economy through exports that otherwise wouldn't have existed.

To insinuate that unemployed or underemployed people, in the worst economy since the Great Depression, are 'losers' or 'lazy' requires a good scolding. Stop being an insensitive, unempathetic ass...

Thanks, I feel better now.

Well they are losers by definition. Lazy? Some of them certainly are just by the odds.

Overall I was just giving people a taste of their own medicine. I was just turning around the crap I constantly get to see how people would feel. Face it, my taxes do pay for a bunch of government programs that couldn't exist otherwise. I take on a greater burden of supplying the public treasury than the average person but get nothing but crap for it.

 

[Halfcentaur]

I don't think the two people in this thread who are unemployed were the ones giving you that "medicine".

Of course I could go back to square one and abandon my house and most of my belongings, but that seems a little drastic when I could just collect the unemployment benefits from the program I have been paying into (the last 14 years that I've been working) while in the meantime searching for a job that will not require this drastic turn of events.

Who exactly is giving you all this crap beyond the poster on the last page of this thread?

 

[kuroyume0161]

What have you been smoking? I employ a bunch of americans and have added a ton of money to the economy through exports that otherwise wouldn't have existed.

Can you employ, say, oh, 40-60 million (these are the estimates of unemployed/underemployed)? Oh, okay. Didn't think so.

Well they are losers by definition. Lazy? Some of them certainly are just by the odds.

So, people who fall prey to a failing world economy are losers? They are victims (me included). What have YOU been smoking?

Overall I was just giving people a taste of their own medicine. I was just turning around the crap I constantly get to see how people would feel. Face it, my taxes do pay for a bunch of government programs that couldn't exist otherwise. I take on a greater burden of supplying the public treasury than the average person but get nothing but crap for it.

Yes, I always appreciate being kicked in the groin and other sensitive areas when I'm on the ground having a seizure or heart attack. It is the best medicine, right? Your taxes are a piddling small bit compared to the whole (Microsoft, Apple, Boeing, Walmart, and so on and so on). But thanks for paying. That doesn't earn you the right to piss on everyone else.

Bye...

 

[PS13]

Let me just say this. I hope that all of you unemployed losers find work so that you can pay your fair share of taxes. I'm the one that's paying for you to suck of the government boob and I would appreciate some help.

I find it absolutely disgusting that a person like myself who moved to this country with a suitcase and a dream gets slammed on a regular basis just because we are successful. It's envy and class warfare and frankly I'm getting sick of it.

Grow up, dude.


You're not the only guy in the USA that pays taxes. The unemployed paid into the same system that you do. Everyone who works pays into it in case there's a day that they might need it. If you are the only person who funds the unemployment insurance program for the federal government, then by all means, bitch & moan about it, but like I said, I'm pretty sure that you're not the only one who pays into it. Quite frankly, I'm getting sick of people like you who make it sound like they are the only tax payer in the USA.

If you're only trying to give back "what you get", then you can do it in your "real life" & leave it off the forum here, cause that's where it's happening apparently. I didn't see anyone attack in this thread you before you said this, so how about you just keep those rude comments to yourself.

 

[NewtonTrino]

You're not the only guy in the USA that pays taxes. The unemployed paid into the same system that you do. Everyone who works pays into it in case there's a day that they might need it. If you are the only person who funds the unemployment insurance program for the federal government, then by all means, bitch & moan about it, but like I said, I'm pretty sure that you're not the only one who pays into it. Quite frankly, I'm getting sick of people like you who make it sound like they are the only tax payer in the USA.

I have no problem with unemployment insurance or extending the benefits. Just don't raise my taxes, cut spending somewhere else. I suggest the military for starters.

If you're only trying to give back "what you get", then you can do it in your "real life" & leave it off the forum here, cause that's where it's happening apparently. I didn't see anyone attack in this thread you before you said this, so how about you just keep those rude comments to yourself.

Pretty much universally if I say something about already contributing enough people attack me and claim they should be able to take more of my income and that it's "fair" because I don't need it as much as them. Do you or do you not want to raise my taxes? If I complain about it then I'm just a sore rich guy who doesn't want to contribute.

Bottom line is that coming out against raising taxes on rich people is insanely unpopular. If you are one of the people paying those taxes the attitude is basically "suck it up, richy rich". Fine, I'll suck it up and pay but I don't have to like it.

Anyway I obviously hit a nerve with my "loser" response. I was just trying to give you guys the same kind of stereotyped response that I seem to get on the other side of the issue. It's easy to paint the rich as a bunch of bums who don't want to contribute, instead of people who already give huge amounts and are constantly asked for more. It's also just as easy to paint everyone who's out of work as a loser who lacks life skills.

 

[NewtonTrino]

As I said my position here is wildly unpopular. 74% against keeping tax cuts for people making over 250k. If this passes it will show how hardcore the rich control the republicans *and* the democrats. After all Obama could veto it and without some dems it ain't going to be possible to extend the cuts.

http://donklephant.com/2010/12/02/cbs-polls-reaffirms-tax-cut-for-upper-class-is-wildly-unpopular/

 

[rwguinn]

As I said my position here is wildly unpopular. 74% against keeping tax cuts for people making over 250k. If this passes it will show how hardcore the rich control the republicans *and* the democrats. After all Obama could veto it and without some dems it ain't going to be possible to extend the cuts.

http://donklephant.com/2010/12/02/cbs-polls-reaffirms-tax-cut-for-upper-class-is-wildly-unpopular/

As one of the unemployed/laid off, I assure you your views are not unpopular with me.
What is taking it in the shorts is R&D in the physical fields (As opposed to the computer-based "you can't see an electron" stuff)
Yes, our infrastructure is wearing out-roads, bridges, etc. So are our aircraft and other transportation vehicles.Apparently we know all there is to know about how to put things together and what to make them with, so we don't need engineering-or we can use the "pushbutton" technology of ProE, IDEAS, etc, to go from design to production without using all those engineers who actually know how to make stuff work.
I have formed a small consulting firm-a one-man operation (I had a designer, too, but he found a well-paying full-time job and left) that barely covers expenses right now. I hope some things open up next year, but I'm not holding out a lot of hope.
I could go to work in fast-food, but I have psoriasis. You want me serving food? Didn't think so. There is also the fact that who in their right mind is going to hire a guy at $8.00 per hour who has been making $70+ per hour? They know damn well he's going to leave as soon as anything else opens up-after you spent time training him/her--and yes, even McDonald's requires some training.
Ok, so its a self-centered view of the world right now. But there is a very large number of well-educated, very competent folks out there who can't get back to work, simply because Government funded R&D (NASA, etc) and private-sector R&D in the physical fields is almost non-existent.

 

[delphi_ote]

At least in america anyone can start a business for example, it's not like you have to bribe someone to get a license like in some countries.

You are so far out of touch, I can't even begin to talk to you.

 

[NewtonTrino]

As one of the unemployed/laid off, I assure you your views are not unpopular with me.
What is taking it in the shorts is R&D in the physical fields (As opposed to the computer-based "you can't see an electron" stuff)

I agree btw and I think it's a shame that we are losing so many talented companies because they are being undersold by foreign labor. Frankly I'm shocked this hasn't happened in software yet as well.

Yes, our infrastructure is wearing out-roads, bridges, etc. So are our aircraft and other transportation vehicles.Apparently we know all there is to know about how to put things together and what to make them with, so we don't need engineering-or we can use the "pushbutton" technology of ProE, IDEAS, etc, to go from design to production without using all those engineers who actually know how to make stuff work.

Again I completely think we're dropping the ball on investing in our own stuff. Keep in mind that in China these are all massive growth sectors. If you wanted to move you could probably find a well paying job over there right now as long as you were willing to supervise a large chinese staff. I know several people in my field who have done stints over there.

I have formed a small consulting firm-a one-man operation (I had a designer, too, but he found a well-paying full-time job and left) that barely covers expenses right now. I hope some things open up next year, but I'm not holding out a lot of hope.

What percentage of your time do you spend marketing/networking vs working on actual engineering? This kind of one man shop lives or dies based on leads and getting enough work. I spend almost 100% of my time working bizdev to feed the machine.

I could go to work in fast-food, but I have psoriasis. You want me serving food? Didn't think so. There is also the fact that who in their right mind is going to hire a guy at $8.00 per hour who has been making $70+ per hour? They know damn well he's going to leave as soon as anything else opens up-after you spent time training him/her--and yes, even McDonald's requires some training.

I agree, I don't see mickeys as anything other than a last resort before death for someone who is skilled. Unfortunately as efficiency increases or as things get outsourced there simply may not be enough space in the labor market. What percentage of your income did you save when you were working for the bad times? How much debt did you have, were you overextended? This is the other thing people do, they don't save enough and they overextend. This causes a double whammy when they get laid off.

To read one persons ideas on the coming labor issues check out Marshall Brain's story Manna http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

Ok, so its a self-centered view of the world right now. But there is a very large number of well-educated, very competent folks out there who can't get back to work, simply because Government funded R&D (NASA, etc) and private-sector R&D in the physical fields is almost non-existent.

Yup, we are short changing ourselves. Gutting the manned space program sucks but apparently we spent enough money to go to mars a few times already on wars in the last decade. We are absolutely killing ourselves with stupidity here. There is so much we could do to harness the market to help build new industries here. However, our politicians are useless incompetents and nobody has any long term vision. I don't think it's a spending problem, it's a creativity issue. For example the space side is over regulated right now which makes it hard for small companies to be involved and innovate in space. Even so quite a few people are stepping up to the plate with their own money to try and make space a reality. We need to find ways to encourage the private sector to invest more in space and more in R&D. We need to clean up the regulatory environment for space as well. We need to be looking at every industry and doing this, as well as making it easy to get new businesses going.


Anyway I'm going to say again that I think raising taxes doesn't solve anything. It's simply giving a drunk a drink. We need creative solutions, not the same old bleating about making the rich pay for it all. It doesn't really matter how much money you give these politicians, it's simply going to get spent right up to the limit. Then when the economy has a dip and revenues dive you are right into deficits. Add a stupid war, or two, and now you need to come back to the trough.

 

[NewtonTrino]

You are so far out of touch, I can't even begin to talk to you.

Really? That's funny because I moved to this country 14 years ago with a suitcase and a bit of cash. I literally had no assets other than that suitcase and some cash in my wallet. Since then I've been involved in numerous startup companies and none of them required anything more than filling out some paperwork to get started. The last one was less than 3 years ago and we got going just as the recession hit hard.

So why is it that you can't start a business? Let's hear about your situation.

 

[slingblade]

Let me just say this. I hope that all of you unemployed losers find work so that you can pay your fair share of taxes. I'm the one that's paying for you to suck of the government boob and I would appreciate some help.

I'm not on unemployment. I don't take one dime from the government. We don't even get food stamps and today we aren't sure what we're going to eat next week. I hope that cheers you up some.

I find it absolutely disgusting that a person like myself who moved to this country with a suitcase and a dream gets slammed on a regular basis just because we are successful. It's envy and class warfare and frankly I'm getting sick of it.

I find it disgusting that you think everyone out of a job is getting unemployment benefits. Some of us are getting nothing at all except terrified.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Of course I would mind. I hate paying taxes.
But if it's bad for the economy for me to have retirement money just sitting there, forcing me to pay taxes on it every year might cause me to do something with it.

Unless it is sitting in a shoe box, you already do something with it.

Which is why the whole idea is silly.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Honestly, yes. Where I am it's impossible to find anyone to do anything. Every business is hiring. There just are not enough workers. We've had two restaurants close up shop because they could not find wait staff, cooks, or cleaning people. The only reason the fast food places are still open is because they brought over a bunch of Filipino immigrants. There is absolutely no reason for anyone here to be unemployed if they are able-bodied. It's bonkers. It will be probably a year before I can get someone to do my eavestroughs. It's at least a month's wait for a plumber or electrician to come out for a minor issue.

We need you Americans to come here. I seriously urge folks to consider relocation. I am not kidding. If you are a mechanic, let me know, I can get you a job today.

I don't need a job, but just out of curiosity, where are you?

(It would be better if you could post your exact address)

 

[TraneWreck]

Really? That's funny because I moved to this country 14 years ago with a suitcase and a bit of cash. I literally had no assets other than that suitcase and some cash in my wallet. Since then I've been involved in numerous startup companies and none of them required anything more than filling out some paperwork to get started. The last one was less than 3 years ago and we got going just as the recession hit hard.

So why is it that you can't start a business? Let's hear about your situation.

There are a couple of things that crack me up about this self-righteous dickishness.

First, no one ever considers that they're lucky. You think that somehow your success is indicative of a normal experience. If course, no one arrogant enough to write that post could ever bring themselves to realize that some factors beyond their immediate control were necessary.

But fine, I get that, it's human nature.

The funny part is that you're arrogant enough to rip on everyone who doesn't share your wealth, and yet you don't attribute the disparity to your skill. What if you're just better?

I make a lot of money because I attended a top ten law school. I got into that school because I sat down and took the LSAT with tens of thousands of other people and scored in the 99th percentile.

My form of arrogance says that I'm talented (for the sake of this response--obviously I had the great advantage of parents who stressed education...etc.) and that's why I'm well off. I don't expect others to follow my path because they can't, no matter how hard they work.

But here you are basically saying that anyone can do what you did. It's not that impressive, you just have to fill out a few bits of paper. If your blind-slandering of everyone going through tough times in the worst job market since the 30's wasn't enough to lose you any respect, the fact that your success is so very uninteresting more than does the job.

Lot's of people work hard, not that many are talented.

Thus, I'm happy that my abilities can help put food on people's tables or make sure they can buy their kids clothes or whatever. It's not a big deal for me to pay a little more. Maybe I just set aside some of the creature comforts that I indulge in. No more Direct League pass, or whatever. It's a small sacrifice and if you really were a macho tough guy, you would shrug it off.

And, of course, the dirty little secret is that by ensuring that the population has money and skills (through education), we ensure that there are people who can afford my services.

Both in an altruistic sense and from pure self-interest, progressive taxation and strong social safety nets are preferable.