Hard vs Soft Martial Arts

[Phrost]

Ju, not jiu. Japanese friends tell me flexible is the most appropriate translation.

"'Jiu-jitsu' is actually an old and mistaken way to represent the Japanese characters. 'Jujutsu,' or perhaps 'jujitsu' is the correct version. However, 'jiu-jitsu' is the traditional spelling in 'Brazilian jiu-jitsu' so we have retained it." ~~John Banaher, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Theory and Practice

Ironically, my instructor's style of JJ uses that spelling. Ultimately it doesn't matter because it's a romanization of a Japanese character, kind of like trying to spell a glottal stop.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Ironically, my instructor's style of JJ uses that spelling. Ultimately it doesn't matter because it's a romanization of a Japanese character, kind of like trying to spell a glottal stop.

There are, incidentally, consistent rules we use when we romanize Japanese which are accurate, far more accurate than the whimsical ones for Chinese, for instance.

 

[Mirrorglass]

There are, incidentally, consistent rules we use when we romanize Japanese which are accurate, far more accurate than the whimsical ones for Chinese, for instance.

I wouldn't say "accurate" is the best word to describe them; the rules aren't consistent with any western system of pronounciation. They are internally consistent, though, something that is often lacking in Chinese romanization, albeit understandably. Well, I suppose that is what you were saying, actually.

 

[Phrost]

As far as I'm concerned, if someone wanted to spell it "Ju", "Jiu", "Joo", or "Jew", the point is irrelevant as long as the concept is conveyed.

But then, the Brazilians have a bit more of a right to spell it any way they'd like since they're the ones kicking the most arse with the principle.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

I wouldn't say "accurate" is the best word to describe them; the rules aren't consistent with any western system of pronounciation. They are internally consistent, though, something that is often lacking in Chinese romanization, albeit understandably. Well, I suppose that is what you were saying, actually.

Yeah, exactly. Since we have a romanization of every kana, and all kanji have kana series to spell them out, we can consistently romanize every Japanese word.

Incidentally, the common Japanese romanization pronunciations happens to translate almost perfectly to Swedish.

 

[imjohn]

Ugh -- this stuff again?

 

[JJM 777]

Are these terms just a left-over of nonsense mysticism associated with martial arts?

I think the terms intend to say something quite meaningful about the attitude and health concerns of each alternative.

If I must go to the ring, I think I would rather be subjected to soft martial arts such as judo, instead of hard martial arts such as full contact karate.

Also if you must use force in a real life situation, it is good to be aware of the hardness of your techniques, so you don't use lethal or injuring force against an opponent who needs just a soft powerful touch to know his place.

 

[imjohn]

I think the terms intend to say something quite meaningful about the attitude and health concerns of each alternative.

If I must go to the ring, I think I would rather be subjected to soft martial arts such as judo, instead of hard martial arts such as full contact karate.

Also if you must use force in a real life situation, it is good to be aware of the hardness of your techniques, so you don't use lethal or injuring force against an opponent who needs just a soft powerful touch to know his place.

Hitting the ground after a Judo throw is pretty darn hard and dangerous.

 

[cgordon]

Boxing/karate = Hitting your opponent with your hands
Savate/Tae Kwon Do = Hitting your opponent with your feet
Judo/Jujutsu = Hitting your opponent with the Earth

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Savate is the most awesome thing France has ever produced.

 

[imjohn]

Savate is the most awesome thing France has ever produced.

I like baguettes better.

 

[Doc Bunkum]

Boxing/karate = Hitting your opponent with your hands
Savate/Tae Kwon Do = Hitting your opponent with your feet
Judo/Jujutsu = Hitting your opponent with the Earth

Silat = hitting your opponent with himself.

 

[firecoins]

Silat = hitting your opponent with himself.

stop hitting yourself! stop hitting yourself!

 

[JJM 777]

Hitting the ground after a Judo throw is pretty darn hard and dangerous.

Not to speak of hitting the ground after falling with bicycle, motorbike, slalom skis, skateboard, BMX bike, mountaing climbing equipment, stuck parachute, or an ultralight trike.

A part of the softness in judo (as a sport anyway) is using the soft tatami carpet.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Not to speak of hitting the ground after falling with bicycle, motorbike, slalom skis, skateboard, BMX bike, mountaing climbing equipment, stuck parachute, or an ultralight trike.

A part of the softness in judo (as a sport anyway) is using the soft tatami carpet.

I really don't see anything in judo as "soft" except the mat. However, would you consider wrestling or BJJ "soft" or "hard"?

I think "striking" vs "grappling" are better terms for what you're talking about.

 

[JJM 777]

Let us put it this way: basketball and tennis are softer sports than ice hockey and American football. Even with all that protection worn by the latter, injuries are more common and serious in the latter.

How hard or soft judo is compared to other sports, and other martial arts, should be estimated by their statistical injury rates. Said statistics also serve the leaders of each sport as they decide how to improve the rules and requirements for protective equipment.

 

[thaiboxerken]

How hard or soft judo is compared to other sports, and other martial arts, should be estimated by their statistical injury rates.

Sounds fair. Have any of those statistics? I doubt that injuries in Judo are any less than those in Muay Thai.

 

[Phrost]

"Soft" or "Hard" has nothing to do with injury rates. The point of the Martial Arts is to injure other people; everything else is just garnish.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

If you're going to train for combat, you're going to get hurt. Part of the package deal.

I used to be an Aikidoka under the Karl Geis system. What Phrost said up there is true. My first Aikido instructor was HUGE. He didn't even participate in instructing the students in technique. He was that out of shape, that he couldn't lead an aikido class.

That was one of my first experiences with confirmation bias...or something. The judo class at Oklahoma State had the mat room after us, and sometimes our higher-ranked Aikido guys would get picked on and tossed around by the lower-ranked Judoka. Almost as if they were toys. Funny. Back then I had no shortage of rationalizations handy for why the techniques didn't work, and all of them were B.S. Still, I threw a few more years of my life down that particular "soft" martial arts drain. And for what? A handful of Tomiki-Ryu techniques that might work in a very limited set of circumstances that I would have never been adequately prepared for anyway, since they were buried in a flawed system built upon errant nonsense with crappy methodology and training practices.

Since then I've realized the value of hitting people and dropping them on the ground. Which is, by this definition, a "hard" thing. Most Aikidoka really embrace the "soft" idea as they fancy themselves tapped into some kind of "truer" form of self-defense than harder martial artists. And that's from the ones who don't read O-Sensei's ramblings every day like some latter-day messiah.

 

[Phrost]

Good story. Yeah, people who are attracted to Aikido generally fail to realize that Uesheba was basically a Japanese version of a flower child cultist, stopping short of taking on a name like "Moonbeam".

Not to mention that Aikido is pretty much the polar opposite of Judo. Whereas Jigoro Kano took techniques from Japanese Jujitsu and refined them through full contact competition and sparring (randori), Uesheba took the same techniques and filtered them through a sieve of pacifist philosophy and other religious nonsense.

Kano's method was akin to sharpening a sword with a rock whereas Uesheba's approach was more like beating the sword against the rock until it was blunt and useless.