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The Great Thermate Debate

Michal said:
ha ha ha :) good one :)

any effort to procure with civilized discusion?
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Please tell us what UL report on the corroded steel from WTC7 you're talking about, then we can have a civilised discussion on it. That is, of course, if you don't continue to dodge every question asked of you.

Dave
 
Michal said:
ha ha ha :) good one :)

any effort to procure with civilized discusion?
Click to expand...

When you stop screwing around and link us to the UL study that might remotely admit a psosibility of thermite residue instead of sulphuric acid and copper sulphate residues on the Swiss cheese steel.
 
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What's even worse, is I even explained to him that the 3-5 was for Brooklyn to the Financial District in Lower Manhattan.

LOL!! Good luck finding www.Google.com with those skills.
 
Well, I now call BS on Michal's assertion that the UL rteport exists which shows the faintest possibility that the Swiss cheese steel is a thermite product.

Michal, you earned them.

:dl: :dl: :dl: :dl: :dl:

Don't bring no weak stuff in here. If you've got game, bring game. Else stay home.
 
I'm curious?????......If a thermitic reation did not cause the swiss cheese like, paper scroll curled, gaping holed, sulfidized steel........then what could, and don't give me that diels fuel tank BS.

LMAO!!
 
superlogicalthinker said:
I'm curious?????......If a thermitic reation did not cause the swiss cheese like, paper scroll curled, gaping holed, sulfidized steel........then what could, and don't give me that diels fuel tank BS.

LMAO!!
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An accelerated version of what did this to a pipe:
pipei.jpg



Yes, believe it or not heat and high moisture both among other things accelerates the process.
 
superlogicalthinker said:
I'm curious?????......If a thermitic reation did not cause the swiss cheese like, paper scroll curled, gaping holed, sulfidized steel........then what could, and don't give me that diels fuel tank BS.
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Well, if you read the source that describes the appearance of the steel, then you'll see that it attributes it to eutectic melting along grain boundaries due to the presence of temperatures approaching 1000ºC and acidic corrosive agents for extended periods of time in the rubble pile following the collapse of WTC7. The source of the corrosive agents may be gypsum from drywall in the building rubble, which is known to decompose at these temeratures and release oxides of sulphur, which will mix with water to produce sulphuric acid.

So we have one plausible mechanism by which this effect could have been produced. Compare this to the thermite theory; so far, it has been shown that it's possible to produce a sharp edge on steel using a thermitic reaction, but the "swiss cheese like, paper scroll curled" and "sulfidized" bits have never yet been shown to be possible to produce using thermite. At present, the acid attack in the rubble pile fire is the only fully formed theory.

Saying "If Thermite didn't cause this, what did?" is an interesting informal fallacy, which I'm not entirely sure of the name of. The question implies that thermite could have caused it, when that premise is never established. It's maybe a variation on the complex question fallacy, in which anybody answering it at all is judged to have accepted its implicit premise. I do not accept any such premise; as far as I am aware, it is impossible for a thermitic reaction to have produced the results described, therefore it must have been something else.

Dave
 
Dave,

Absolutely correct. The steel was shown to "melt" at much lower temperatures than thermite produces. Therefore, thermite is ruled out.

Kinda self-debunking really. Just like Harriet et al.'s papers on thermite.
 
Dave Rogers said:
Well, if you read the source that describes the appearance of the steel, then you'll see that it attributes it to eutectic melting along grain boundaries due to the presence of temperatures approaching 1000ºC and acidic corrosive agents for extended periods of time in the rubble pile following the collapse of WTC7. The source of the corrosive agents may be gypsum from drywall in the building rubble, which is known to decompose at these temeratures and release oxides of sulphur, which will mix with water to produce sulphuric acid.

So we have one plausible mechanism by which this effect could have been produced. Compare this to the thermite theory; so far, it has been shown that it's possible to produce a sharp edge on steel using a thermitic reaction, but the "swiss cheese like, paper scroll curled" and "sulfidized" bits have never yet been shown to be possible to produce using thermite. At present, the acid attack in the rubble pile fire is the only fully formed theory.

Saying "If Thermite didn't cause this, what did?" is an interesting informal fallacy, which I'm not entirely sure of the name of. The question implies that thermite could have caused it, when that premise is never established. It's maybe a variation on the complex question fallacy, in which anybody answering it at all is judged to have accepted its implicit premise. I do not accept any such premise; as far as I am aware, it is impossible for a thermitic reaction to have produced the results described, therefore it must have been something else.

Dave
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What was your imagined cause of temperatures approaching 1000 C?

MM
 
superlogicalthinker said:
I'm curious?????......If a thermitic reation did not cause the swiss cheese like, paper scroll curled, gaping holed, sulfidized steel........then what could ?
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Melting from therm?te would leave glaring evidence of extremely high temperatures in the form of resolidified metal and slag.

So it must have been something else.
 
Miragememories said:
What was your imagined cause of temperatures approaching 1000 C?
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I don't have an imagined cause, sorry. I can suggest a real cause, namely the fires that are known to have burned in the rubble pile for several weeks, but for imagined causes you'd be better off asking your fellow truthers to make up some new pretend properties of thermite. They're quite good at that.

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
I don't have an imagined cause, sorry. I can suggest a real cause, namely the fires that are known to have burned in the rubble pile for several weeks, but for imagined causes you'd be better off asking your fellow truthers to make up some new pretend properties of thermite. They're quite good at that.

Dave
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So you 'imagine' that rubble pile fires, without benefit of any thermitic material, were able to obtain sufficient oxygen and high energy fuel to attain and sustain, temperatures approaching 1000 C?

That argument fails to persuade me and 9/11 Truth supporters.

If it works for you and the Official Conspiracy Borg, go for it.

MM
 
Miragememories said:
So you 'imagine' that rubble pile fires, without benefit of any thermitic material, were able to obtain sufficient oxygen and high energy fuel to attain and sustain, temperatures approaching 1000 C?

That argument fails to persuade me and 9/11 Truth supporters.

If it works for you and the Official Conspiracy Borg, go for it.

MM
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This seems odd. You accept that there were fires, but not that there was sufficient oxygen and fuel to sustain them? What are the three things a fire needs, MM?
 
"The source of the corrosive agents may be gypsum from drywall in the building rubble"

Sorry....there has been a scientific experiment by a P.E. (Jon Cole) where he shows that the sulfur could not have come from the gympum board. it is on You tube, you should check it out. But let's hold the sulfur for the time being, what I'm interested in, is the piece of steel Jon Barrnett found, which was once 1 inch thick, reduced to a half inch thickness with gaping holes, curled like a paper scroll, thinned to almost razor sharpness, with a "swiss cheese" like appearence. This peice of steel is documented by FEMA to have come directly from WTC7.

Please Dave, tell me how a thermitic reation could NOT have caused this.
 
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