Saudis arrest hundreds of Al-Qaeda suspects

[varwoche]

it appears that some folks here would rather Saudi Arabia not help us in the war on terror.

sad. very sad.

What's more 'sad', from my perspective at least, is when people I generally agree with (e.g. you in this instance) post shallow, asinine things such as this, accompanied by crocodile tears no less. That is, just because Wild Cat correctly points out the culpability of the Saudi government in the grand scheme, that doesn't mean he doesn't want them to pursue bad guys.

 

[Thunder]

What's more 'sad', from my perspective at least, is when people I generally agree with (e.g. you in this instance) post shallow, asinine things such as this, accompanied by crocodile tears no less. That is, just because Wild Cat correctly points out the culpability of the Saudi government in the grand scheme, that doesn't mean he doesn't want them to pursue bad guys.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6594853#post6594853

 

[varwoche]

Timely to this discussion, an unsurprising revelation courtesy of wikileaks:

Saudi donors remain the chief financiers of Sunni militant groups like Al Qaeda... according to a State Department cable

 

[Thunder]

Timely to this discussion, an unsurprising revelation courtesy of wikileaks:

are you saying the USA and other countries have never talked out of both sides of their mouth's before?

case in point: the recent revelations of American assistance to Nazis and even Nazi war-criminals, at the end of WW2.

 

[varwoche]

are you saying the USA and other countries have never talked out of both sides of their mouth's before?

No. It's further evidence of ongoing Saudi culpability in the grand scheme, that's all.

 

[funk de fino]

What's more 'sad', from my perspective at least, is when people I generally agree with (e.g. you in this instance) post shallow, asinine things such as this, accompanied by crocodile tears no less. That is, just because Wild Cat correctly points out the culpability of the Saudi government in the grand scheme, that doesn't mean he doesn't want them to pursue bad guys.

The Saudi govt are the one pursuing the terrorists and arresting hundreds of them. The terrorists hate the Saudi govt as much as they hate you.

Blaming them for everything in a thread pointing out they are helping to strike a blow against them is truly pathetic, although not unexpected in this hoted of bigotry.

 

[Thunder]

I have seen NO evidence of Saudi government support for terrorism or terrorist supporters.

That's all I care about.

And I don't think Al Qaeda is a big fan of the Sauds. Did they not hit the kingdom with terrorist attacks before?

 

[Thunder]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usdiplomacymilitaryinternetwikileakssaudiiran

Saudi King urged attack against Iran.

Looks like they are our allies, after all.

 

[A'isha]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usdiplomacymilitaryinternetwikileakssaudiiran

Saudi King urged attack against Iran.

Looks like they are our allies, after all.

I'm pretty sure the king's exhortations had far more to do with him being the leader of a Salafi Sunni nation not wanting to have a powerful, influential, nuclear Shia nation nearby than with any desire of the Saudis to support US foreign policy in the region.

That is, he wasn't urging an attack for the benefit of our country, but for the benefit of his.

 

[WildCat]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6594853#post6594853

Does nothing to refute what varwoche said.

I'd love for the Saudis to really crack down on al Qaeda and other extremist groups, but they cannot actually do so in any meaningful fashion because the Saudi goverment itself is an adherent to an extreme form of Islam - Wahabbism. So they nip around the edges, but at the end of the day it doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

[Thunder]

Does nothing to refute what varwoche said.

I'd love for the Saudis to really crack down on al Qaeda and other extremist groups, but they cannot actually do so in any meaningful fashion because the Saudi goverment itself is an adherent to an extreme form of Islam - Wahabbism. So they nip around the edges, but at the end of the day it doesn't mean a whole lot.

would you prefer that these men that were arrested, be set free?

but yes, you are right about one thing: Middle Eastern countries are notoriously bad at prosecuting and cracking down on extremists and extremist groups. Be it Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, Israel, etc etc.

 

[WildCat]

would you prefer that these men that were arrested, be set free?

I'd prefer Saudi Arabia stop being a backward fundy religious hellhole that by its very existence creates groups like al Qaeda.

The Saudis fighting al Qaeda is like two street gangs warring with each other... sure you don't necessarily mind when some lowlife gangbanger kills another lowlife gangbanger, but you really wish there were no lowlife gangbangers to begin with.

The Saudi government has far more in common with groups like al Qaeda than they are different. Remember, this is the same country whose religious police locked the doors of a burning girl's school because the ones attempting to escape the flames weren't properly covered or accompanied by a male relative so they couldn't go out in public. Not even to save their lives.

 

[varwoche]

I have seen NO evidence of Saudi government support for terrorism or terrorist supporters.

That's all I care about.

And I don't think Al Qaeda is a big fan of the Sauds. Did they not hit the kingdom with terrorist attacks before?

The relationship between the Saudi government/rulers and Al Qaeda reminds me of the relationship between the mainstream LDS church and the fundamentalist groups that broke away. The breakaway groups are true to the teaching but fell out of favor due to political/legal realities. Though in the case of LDS, the church did an about face and shut down the controversial stuff, whereas the Saudi education system continues to foist the same hatred that bred Al Qaeda, at least according to what I read.

 

[varwoche]

The Saudi govt are the one pursuing the terrorists and arresting hundreds of them. The terrorists hate the Saudi govt as much as they hate you.

Blaming them for everything in a thread pointing out they are helping to strike a blow against them is truly pathetic, although not unexpected in this hoted of bigotry.

One problem with your defense of these despots: They are largely to blame.

I have been to Saudi many times in recent years. I see exactly what they do in the war against terror. It seems they cannot win. Ever.

Unless you work in government in a rarified position, I'm skeptical that you know more than the next guy about how Saudi deals with terrorism, given their non-transparent society. Much less seeing exactly.

 

[funk de fino]

I'd prefer Saudi Arabia stop being a backward fundy religious hellhole that by its very existence creates groups like al Qaeda.

You've not been there. Obvious

The Saudis fighting al Qaeda is like two street gangs warring with each other... sure you don't necessarily mind when some lowlife gangbanger kills another lowlife gangbanger, but you really wish there were no lowlife gangbangers to begin with.

You've not been there. Ignorance

The Saudi government has far more in common with groups like al Qaeda than they are different. Remember, this is the same country whose religious police locked the doors of a burning girl's school because the ones attempting to escape the flames weren't properly covered or accompanied by a male relative so they couldn't go out in public. Not even to save their lives.

You've not been there. Speculation. The Saudis are arresting more terrorists than the US. The US have to honeytrap them.

 

[funk de fino]

One problem with your defense of these despots: They are largely to blame.

Incorrect.

Unless you work in government in a rarified position, I'm skeptical that you know more than the next guy about how Saudi deals with terrorism, given their non-transparent society. Much less seeing exactly.

Complete rubbish. It does not make good news that muslims are arresting other muslims so you never see the half of it outside the country. The difference in that palce from 20 years ago is amazing. Not great, but progress all the same. Having been there I can see it. I dont spout lofty claims from my laptop in suburbia.

 

[varwoche]

Incorrect.

Your continuous defense of these despotic fanatics, facts be damned, does not add credence to your claim of insider knowledge.

Complete rubbish. It does not make good news that muslims are arresting other muslims so you never see the half of it outside the country. The difference in that palce from 20 years ago is amazing. Not great, but progress all the same. Having been there I can see it. I dont spout lofty claims from my laptop in suburbia.

I've traveled the world extensively, especially in certain regions. Yet I don't possess more knowledge about the way the various governments handle sensitive national security issues than the next guy. So no, I'm not buying your expertise, especially since it doesn't synch with reality.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Doesn't al Qaeda get most of its funding from wealthy Saudis? Arresting the small fry is good, yes, but as long as the money keeps flowing from princely coffers they're putting out the fires but ignoring the fire-breathing dragon.

 

[Morrigan]

You've not been there. Obvious

Wait. Are you denying that Saudi Arabia is a backward fundy religious hellhole?
Please clarify.

Somewhat on topic, just saw this article:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-1206-muslim-poll-20101206,0,252922.story

Ouch.

 

[INRM]

Well, I'm glad they caught them, though honestly I'm wondering if they are actually doing it because they want to stop terrorism or just going through the motions to make European Nations, and the United States happy

I also wonder if the large number of terrorists captured in Saudi Arabia will be used by countries like the US to justify greater domestic surveillance (on everybody), under the guise that it's to "root-out terrorists like how the Saudi's did". Maybe it could even be used to justify sweeping mass-arrests of supposed terrorists -- keep in mind there are lots of people on our Terrorist Watch Lists who do not belong there, and DHS is adding more names everyday, even people who simply speak out against the new TSA screening procedures...

From living under the Bush Administration for 8 years, and under the Obama Administration for nearly 2 years, I have learned that if the government can do something (that it wants to do), it will do so to the maximum possible extent it can get away with until it is no longer profitable.