Baba Vanga - Why there is not more about her on this site!?

[Yoorek]

Hey,

This is my first post on this site. I am wondering why there is no article on this site, or a discussion on this forum about Baba Vanga. Instead what we have - Santa Claus. While indeed whether to lie to children about Santa Claus is an interesting issue, I'd say that no.1 organisation in the buisness of debunking paranormal claims should take note when a psychic preditcs a World War 3 to a specific date, and on that date there erupts a dangerous conflict. It's quite extraordinary, by any standard. Then we here about her other supposed successes, Chernobyl, Kursk, Stalin's death and so on. And of course, when you read her predictions what would happen during and after the World War 3, some of the stuff is really ludicrous. And only by looking in Wikipedia I saw one of her predictions not coming true.

But she is a serious (if that word can apply to a psychic) deal, and she is becoming new Nostradamus on the internet. And justly so. Even, despite the strongness of her claims, when some psychic gains popularity, the EDUCATIONAL foundation must do a throughout debunking. Because THAT'S how you gain new skeptics. But there is no skeptic answer to her.

And I would except JREF to do what it was ONCE doing, before it became MOSTLY light-weight, a thing that was so wonderful, and what made me a skeptic in the first place. A throughout debunking. The context. The analysis of couple of her predictions to see what is their mechanism. The record of failures. And shedding some light on this most recent prediction, whether there is some story behind it. That is what JREF has been created for, wasn't it? The analysis of paranormal phenomenon. I'm looking forward to it.

P.S. I'm not reading about paranormal or supernatural anymore, I moved on. But after I saw the Baba Vanga stuff spreading all over, I said it's time to check Randi's site after some time, because it really got me interested. And when I went here, I recalled "Ahhh, yes, it's the new randi.org, so instead of reply to a new popular phenomenon, I will find posts about Santa Clause, "Delusion to the point of saturation" and Clint Eastwood movie review. The first things that I saw here (except for "Science-based medicine,which is a good series). In the old "Swift" I would be guaranteed to find it. Anyway, what I really want is just a careful analysis of it. For benefit of all doubters and potential future skeptics, because cases like that after debunking really open eyes, and for benefit of the foundation, because analysis of her might prove very popular and invite new-comers. And not just preach to the choir, like it is doing for some time now.

 

[Kuko 4000]

Hi Yoorek, welcome to the forum! I think the people here are happy to look at this more closely, but why not contact James Randi directly:

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/contact-the-jref/12-contacts/5-james-randi.html

Or D.J. Grothe:

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/contact-the-jref/12-contacts/14-dj-grothe.html

 

[tsig]

Hey,

This is my first post on this site. I am wondering why there is no article on this site, or a discussion on this forum about Baba Vanga. Instead what we have - Santa Claus. While indeed whether to lie to children about Santa Claus is an interesting issue, I'd say that no.1 organisation in the buisness of debunking paranormal claims should take note when a psychic preditcs a World War 3 to a specific date, and on that date there erupts a dangerous conflict. It's quite extraordinary, by any standard. Then we here about her other supposed successes, Chernobyl, Kursk, Stalin's death and so on. And of course, when you read her predictions what would happen during and after the World War 3, some of the stuff is really ludicrous. And only by looking in Wikipedia I saw one of her predictions not coming true.

But she is a serious (if that word can apply to a psychic) deal, and she is becoming new Nostradamus on the internet. And justly so. Even, despite the strongness of her claims, when some psychic gains popularity, the EDUCATIONAL foundation must do a throughout debunking. Because THAT'S how you gain new skeptics. But there is no skeptic answer to her.

And I would except JREF to do what it was ONCE doing, before it became MOSTLY light-weight, a thing that was so wonderful, and what made me a skeptic in the first place. A throughout debunking. The context. The analysis of couple of her predictions to see what is their mechanism. The record of failures. And shedding some light on this most recent prediction, whether there is some story behind it. That is what JREF has been created for, wasn't it? The analysis of paranormal phenomenon. I'm looking forward to it.

P.S. I'm not reading about paranormal or supernatural anymore, I moved on. But after I saw the Baba Vanga stuff spreading all over, I said it's time to check Randi's site after some time, because it really got me interested. And when I went here, I recalled "Ahhh, yes, it's the new randi.org, so instead of reply to a new popular phenomenon, I will find posts about Santa Clause, "Delusion to the point of saturation" and Clint Eastwood movie review. The first things that I saw here (except for "Science-based medicine,which is a good series). In the old "Swift" I would be guaranteed to find it. Anyway, what I really want is just a careful analysis of it. For benefit of all doubters and potential future skeptics, because cases like that after debunking really open eyes, and for benefit of the foundation, because analysis of her might prove very popular and invite new-comers. And not just preach to the choir, like it is doing for some time now.

Two predictions:

September 11
In 1989 she predicted the World Trade Center disaster in the following statement:

"Horror, horror! The American brethren will fall after being attacked by the steel birds. The wolves will be howling in a bush, and innocent blood will be gushing."

"Brethren" is believed to refer to the "Twin" Towers or the "Brothers". "Steel Birds" are obviously the jets. The part about the bush is believed to refer to President Bush.

[Submarine similar to the Kursk which sunk as foretold by Baba Vanga]
Russian Disaster
In 1980, she even predicted:

"At the turn of the century, in August of 1999 or 2000, Kursk will be covered with water, and the whole world will be weeping over it."

Kursk was the name of a large city in Russia, also the site of the largest tank battle of WWII. Nobody could understand how the city would be covered by water but the meaning was clear on August 12, 2000, when the Russian submarine, Kursk, named after the city, suffered an explosion and left the survivors for dead at the bottom of the ocean. I remember this news story well. The Russian government did nothing to try and rescue the survivors while the British and Norwegian rescue attempts failed. Baba Vanga was even able to predict the month and a 50% chance of the year this would happen.

http://www.theastralworld.com/prophecies/babavanga.php


Nothing like a little creative retrointerpetation to help the prophesies come true.

 

[Pixel42]

I am wondering why there is no article on this site, or a discussion on this forum about Baba Vanga.

I suspect it's because most people have never heard of her. I certainly hadn't until I read your OP. I don't go looking for this sort of stuff, and I doubt most regular posters here do either.

I just read her wiki entry. Nothing special. The usual mixture of mostly failed prophecies and a few lucky guesses.

 

[Dancing David]

Welcome Yoorek!

There is so much woo out there, we usually only address what people bring here.

 

[Yoorek]

Well,you see, if all of her cases are like Kursk and 9/11, especially Kursk, then with connection with that World War 3 thing, if someone wouldn't be "skeptically biased", he would say that she had something there. If all of her prophecies were like that. The question is, how about her non-famous, failed prophecies. Investigating those would put those "succeses" in the context. Maybe, like many other prophets, she said a lot of things that didn't happen, and those would really appear like lucky guesses. But only then.

And I don't how you could see many failures in Wikipedia. There was only one, on Indonesia. And maybe she didn't reach America, but in Europe she is really popular after this Korean incident. And now the net world wide is full of her.

And saying that WW3 will begin AT EXACT DATE of a very dangerous confilict, it's very interesting coincidence, wouldn't you say?

Just playing devil's advocate, and asking things from a perspective of a random young person without crystallized worldview (neither skeptic or a hard-core believer), who got interested in the case.

 

[Soapy Sam]

The usual problem with "prophets" is establishing that the prediction was documented before the (supposedly related) event.

What witnessed evidence exists which documents her "successful" predictions?

 

[Bikewer]

Also, as was the case with Nostradamus, the "predictions" are so vague that they can be contorted into accuracy after the fact.

 

[Pixel42]

And I don't how you could see many failures in Wikipedia. There was only one, on Indonesia.

Only one in the "Future" predictions section, which starts in 2008. There's nothing to suggest she made any accurate predictions for dates earlier than this, and the only one mentioned - supposed to occur in 2005 - also failed to happen.

And maybe she didn't reach America, but in Europe she is really popular after this Korean incident.

I'm in Europe. Like I said, I'd never heard of her.

And now the net world wide is full of her.

The bits I visit aren't.

And saying that WW3 will begin AT EXACT DATE of a very dangerous confilict, it's very interesting coincidence, wouldn't you say?

No. If WW3 had started this month, that would have been an interesting coincidence. Yet another skirmish on the N/S Korean boundary? Not so much.

 

[Yoorek]

You're all right, though it doesn't exhaust the subject in the least, yes, you're all right. I just don't understand the reluctance about giving it a closer look. Maybe you didn't reach the information about her - I did. In my part of europe she is a hit. In paranormal part of the internet she is also popular after Nort Korean incident. But I don't understand the reluctance to giving her a full-blown expose. Let's look what JREF's site has been up to lately (excluding "Science-based medicine" which is really good and some internal JREF information, reports from DragonCon etc.) -Santa Clause, James Randi making fun of an mentally ill person, Clint Eastwood movie review, another tribute on Carl Sagan, James Randi's thoughts on getting old, Chiniese literacy report, Harry Houdini story, Pareidolia and 2012 (ok, those are kinda fun), later Bigfoot (really?), Arthur C. Clarke (AGAIN?) and Geller (AGAIN!?)....What I'm saying is that Baba Vanga is much more interesting that all that, and popular, if only in my part of europe and in paranormal part of the internet, after North Korean thing.

 

[LTC8K6]

Weak sauce gets little attention?

 

[fuelair]

The forum and the foundation are not the same thing - though many seem to assume they are. The foundation is the part you need to contact as you seem so inclined. The forum is where we discuss things of interest, problems, skepticism generally and specifically, philosophy, current events, film and television,sports, the failings and/or worship of foods, etc. Your topic is a possible discussion area but no more or less than that. If enough people are interested, it will happen - but, again, the forum is on the JREF site but is not the JREF.

 

[Emet]

Welcome to the forum.

You're all right, though it doesn't exhaust the subject in the least, yes, you're all right. I just don't understand the reluctance about giving it a closer look.

Who is reluctant? The members here--the JREF?

Maybe you didn't reach the information about her - I did. In my part of europe she is a hit. In paranormal part of the internet she is also popular after Nort Korean incident. But I don't understand the reluctance to giving her a full-blown expose. Let's look what JREF's site has been up to lately (excluding "Science-based medicine" which is really good and some internal JREF information, reports from DragonCon etc.) -Santa Clause, James Randi making fun of an mentally ill person, Clint Eastwood movie review, another tribute on Carl Sagan, James Randi's thoughts on getting old, Chiniese literacy report, Harry Houdini story, Pareidolia and 2012 (ok, those are kinda fun), later Bigfoot (really?), Arthur C. Clarke (AGAIN?) and Geller (AGAIN!?)....What I'm saying is that Baba Vanga is much more interesting that all that, and popular, if only in my part of europe and in paranormal part of the internet, after North Korean thing.

I'm in the US, and never heard of Baba Vanga before. But my interest in these matters is limited.

I can only speak for myself, of course. The forum is driven by the membership--members start threads, and if others are interested in the topic, a long thread and discussion will ensue.

As to Mr. Randi and the JREF, as a member, I honestly have no idea how they choose what to write about or speak out about.

I agree with Kuko 4000, your concerns might be best addressed to Randi and Grothe directly.

Again, welcome to the forum.

 

[Yoorek]

Thank youfor all the welcomes. My "complaints", so to speak, were not adressed to the members of the forum, but to JREF. I contacted D.J. Groethe. I thought that Baba Vanga was bigger news, my bad. She's still significant in some parts of the world, and in paranormal forums. I decided to ignore Baba Vanga, but when I started typing into google a name of a restaurant that begins with "bab.." and the first thing that popped up was Baba Vanga and World War 3 I thought it's bigger news. Even if you didn't hear about Baba Vanga before...Isn't the subject of her, even from what I wrote so far, more interesting that Arthur C. Clarke, Geller, Santa Claus, some deluded idiot that wrote to randi etc.?

Again, I was just adressing the JREF in general here, and not members of the forum. Thanks for the answers.

 

[Ririon]

Well, now we have a Baba Vanga thread here, as well.

I'll just head out and buy a gun and some canned food, since WW3 has started and all.

 

[Yoorek]

*Of course everywhere I wrote Arthur C. Clarke I meant Arthur Conan Doyle.

 

[TjW]

Well, now we have a Baba Vanga thread here, as well.

I'll just head out and buy a gun and some canned food, since WW3 has started and all.

I thought we were supposed to buy string?

 

[fuelair]

I thought we were supposed to buy string?

You should always buy string!!

 

[Emet]

You should always buy string!!

And duct tape.

 

[Marduk]

but in Europe she is really popular after this Korean incident.

shes not popular in Europe at all, if I wasn't a frikkin genius I would never have heard of her either

and what I did hear of her was that she was another rustic mystic who said some bollocks (like they all do) and then died before any of it came true
I'm really looking forwards to achieving immortality in 4599CE, thats gonna be cool

And duct tape.

Don't believe the movies, duct tape doesn't keep people quiet unless you force the panties into the mouth first