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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Could you quote the part of their appeal that states that?

Psycho who murdered a baby with a shovel:

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The defense is asking for further investigation of Mario Joseph Alessi. Alessi is a prison inmate that claims to have had confidential conversations with Rudy Guede. During these conversations, Guede allegedly discusses sexual acts that could be attributed to the stains left on the pillow. The defense argues that Alessi’s statements contain details of the crime that only Guede would have known. These details confirm that these discussions actually took place. In light of this testimony, it is imperative that further testing be done on the substance found on the pillow.
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[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/appeal4.html[/FONT]

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The defense argues that the court was negligent for refusing to investigate Aviello Luciano. The defense has included Aviello’s recorded statement taken March 31, 2010. The defense argues that the refusal to investigate the details of Aviello shows that the court did not exhaust all avenues of information.
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[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Appeal.html[/FONT]
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He said something about using a Photoshop ruler so these would be unscaled measurements on the image. But there should be a geometrical progression in those distances. The numbers given don't appear to be correct at first glance. From a photo of a grid and a single reference length in the same plane it is possible to reconstruct the geometry including the height of the camera. I'll be playing more with that when I get back to my computer.

On page 46 of the first Rinaldi pdf that Charlie has provided here earlier, there is a daylight photo taken with measuring markers included (the two luminol footprints are below the daylight photo). I don't know if any information can be gleaned from the daylight photo or if its significance was just for example.
 
Better yet how about getting dna samples from the other roommates, boyfriend, plus anyone else that had been present in the past and match it with the bra clasp to check against the DNA markers.

I'd add to that the folks from the scientific police that collected the evidence, those a the lab who worked with it and any other cases the lab was working on at the time.

Has the defense asked for any of this?
 
Yikes, and I thought that trying intoduce the testimony of the baby killer and the mobster was bad. Now Amanda's defense is so pathetic that they have to haul out, after three years, a friend she had from the third grade? Really, this is what they have to resort to?

I believe this friend of hers visited Amanda several times during the first trial. Is there something wrong with being a good friend and speaking up and supporting a friend in trouble? I don't see an article stating the defense is counting on her testimony.

I would be interested to see if the defense has a new strategy regarding experts if they are needed, and if any new experts are on stand by.
 
Psycho who murdered a baby with a shovel:

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[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/appeal4.html[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Mafia killer:[/FONT]

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[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Appeal.html[/FONT]
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Don't see anywhere in there that mentions those guys killed Meredith.
 
I'd add to that the folks from the scientific police that collected the evidence, those a the lab who worked with it and any other cases the lab was working on at the time.

Has the defense asked for any of this?

Why would they need that? According to the Scientifica police there is 0 chance of contamination. They changed gloves often and wore protective suits. Or are you now suggesting that they might have accidently contaminated the evidence? Even the lab says they have a perfect record. So perfect they dont need contamination logs.

As for the defense asking for any of that. Are they not asking for a full review? What do you honestly think a full review consists of? Looking at the same pieces of paper the prosecution threw in front of the jury. Full review pretty much covers everything. An independant lab will want, more dna samples to rule out profiles, they will want contamination logs, they will want to test the samples, they will want the DNA data logs, they will want to review the computer evidence.
 
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Why would they need that? According to the Scientifica police there is 0 chance of contamination. They changed gloves often and wore protective suits. Or are you now suggesting that they might have accidently contaminated the evidence? Even the lab says they have a perfect record. So perfect they dont need contamination logs.

Well good then. Glad we are agreed there was no contamination at the crime scene. After all, the defense isn't doing anything to pursue a contamination stratgey so they must agree with us.
 
Don't see anywhere in there that mentions those guys killed Meredith.

So I guess they just stopped by to sell the Italian version of Girl Scout Cookies.....:rolleyes:

The whole point of bringing up these two psychos is to try and present reasonable doubt. It's gonna backfire for the defense, in my opinion.
 
On page 46 of the first Rinaldi pdf that Charlie has provided here earlier, there is a daylight photo taken with measuring markers included (the two luminol footprints are below the daylight photo). I don't know if any information can be gleaned from the daylight photo or if its significance was just for example.

Raffaele's appeal argues that the defense asked for and was refused information on some of Rinaldi's investigation (Google translated):

At the hearing on May 9, 2009, this defense, having learned only during of the examination of the technical advisor to the PM, dr. Lorenzo Rinaldi existence of a report to signing it, pleaded that the failure filing of this supplemental investigation activities.
The Court rejected the opposition, stated: "in relation to what the
consultant submits, particularly with reference to the fact which does not make use of objective documentary subsequently acquired but estimates based on documentary evidence already available to all Parties l.eccezione (...) and you have not welcomed (...) go beyond " (Ud transcripts. 09/05/2009, pp. 56-57).
This argument is in no way acceptable as it is clear that the
documentation used in hearing adhered to supplementary activities
investigation and as such, under Article. 430 cpp, should be
immediately filed in the office of PM, with the option for the parties to examine it and take copies. In this case, however, the report
additional technical consultants to the signing of the PM, Rinaldi and Bohemia, was not filed in the Registry. Neither has been granted to the accused a preliminary hearing at the hearing to allow it to inspect and take copies. It is emphasized that the report in question by no means limited to be a mere repetition of evidence previously gathered and deposited, but These corrections based on scientific insights (ud transcripts. 9.5.2009, p. 54) which is undoubtedly recognized the character innovative, integrative and consequently, the previous activity.
 
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Well good then. Glad we are agreed there was no contamination at the crime scene. After all, the defense isn't doing anything to pursue a contamination stratgey so they must agree with us.

So no contamination, then the unidentified dna on the bra clasp belongs to more attackers.
 
Any advance on "Amanda and Raffaele went to Amanda's place for an unknown reason, at an unknown time, while somehow still leaving traces on Raffaele's computer of use all night, then took Rudy's side in an argument with Meredith, even after Rudy cut her throat from behind in accidental self-defence and then molested her as she died, and that's how it happened?".

Or any better story?

Because it's looking to me as if there's still not a single coherent story that explains the facts as we now know them and has Amanda and Raffaele being involved in Meredith's murder.

I'm sure Machiavelli for one was saying a moment ago that there are multiple coherent theories that do the job. So why has nobody posted any of them?

Because "facts as we know them" is not a cathegory taking a part in the play. Building a whole narrative of facts as a combination events based on the "facts" as we - readers on a forum - "know them", is not a method that a "guilter" (a neutral observer) will follow. This is no logical starting point for drawing conclusions.

By the way, I have a question about your calculation of odds. Could you get back and correct your calculation? The questioni is: if you deem the odds for an implication Q, of findings X, Y, Z, are that Q is 60% likely for each one of X, Y, Z, how likely is Q if you find all three X Y and Z together?
You calculated it as if the probability was equivalent to (0,6)^3 = > 21,3%.
Your calculation is egregiously wrong. What is the right result?

* the correct result is 93,6%
 
So I guess they just stopped by to sell the Italian version of Girl Scout Cookies.....:rolleyes:

The whole point of bringing up these two psychos is to try and present reasonable doubt. It's gonna backfire for the defense, in my opinion.
Lets see, one jailbird says his brother committed the crime.
The other jailbird says Rudy told him another guy was standing over Meredith's body masturbating.
Rudy said another guy might have raped Meredith.

And finally we have the defense asking for the possible semen sample to be tested. They are not claiming someone didn't leave DNA evidence. They are using testimony of two people and what might be a possible semen sample to force an independent review and do more testing. Of course, your right, they could refuse to test the pillow. That will work over well in the public eye. Why is it so hard for people to realize what the lawyers are doing. Also, rudy could come into court after his appeal is up and refute the baby killers testimony. Of course that would open up the defense to cross examine him.
 
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So no contamination, then the unidentified dna on the bra clasp belongs to more attackers.

If that is the case then it is possible that someone could have murdered Meredith and left almost zero evidence....including Amanda and Raffaele. This totally contradicts what the defense has been saying all along: the lack of DNA by Amanda and Raffaele proves they couldn't have been in Meredith's bedroom when she was murdered.

A few people have mentioned that perhaps the defense has some legal strategy up their collective sleeves that were not getting/understanding. Maybe, but on the surface of it, introducing the statements of these psychos can only hurt the defense (in my opinion).
 
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If that is the case then it is possible that someone could have murdered Meredith and left almost zero evidence....including Amanda and Raffaele. This totally contradicts what the defense has been saying all along: the lack of DNA by Amanda and Raffaele proves they couldn't have been in Meredith's bedroom when she was murdered.

A few people have mentioned that perhaps the defense has some legal strategy up their collective sleeves that were not getting/understanding. Maybe, but on the surface of it, introducing the statements of these psychos can only hurt the defense (in my opinion).

Who does the extra DNA belong to if its not contamination?

Its sad how guilters will either say, what DNA or just flat out refuse give an opinion on the matter.

I have yet to see a plausable explanation for the extra dna on the clasp.
 
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Lets see, one jailbird says his brother committed the crime.
The other jailbird says Rudy told him another guy was standing over Meredith's body masturbating.
Rudy said another guy might have raped Meredith.

And finally we have the defense asking for the possible semen sample to be tested. They are not claiming someone didn't leave DNA evidence. They are using testimony of two people and what might be a possible semen sample to force an independent review and do more testing. Of course, your right, they could refuse to test the pillow. That will work over well in the public eye. Why is it so hard for people to realize what the lawyers are doing. Also, rudy could come into court after his appeal is up and refute the baby killers testimony. Of course that would open up the defense to cross examine him.

How could introducing these statements, which I don't think anyone believes are true, lead to the court allowing a testing of that stain?
 
Who does the extra DNA belong to if its not contamination?

If the defense believed it was contamination why aren't they asking for DNA samples from the scientific police and any cases they were working on at the time to compare against the unknown DNA on the bra clasp?

On the surface of it, they seem to believe the extra DNA belongs to the mobster's brother and/or the mystery guy the baby killer spoke of.

This why I think the defense will lose the appeal. The best avenue of approach would be to push the contamination angle...hard. They choose not to. The defense choose to go with two absolute lies by convicted murderers. Do you really think the jury is going to believe anything coming from the mouth of someone who beat an 18-month old baby to death with a shovel?
 
How could introducing these statements, which I don't think anyone believes are true, lead to the court allowing a testing of that stain?

How about a thing most people like to call. Fair Trial.
After all the prosecution put:
Olive guy on the stand
Shopkeeper whose testimony is contradicted by 3 people.
Homeless guy who could see like an owl at night, know exactly what time it was within 1 minute without owning a watch, and could only see buses no one else could see. Guy must have been seing that Harry Potter bus, through the eyes of harry potters owl while it was flying around a clock tower.
A elderly lady that could hear people walking on leaves 300 meters away. While the wind was blowing and she was inside her residence.
 
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Who does the extra DNA belong to if its not contamination?

Its sad how guilters will either say, what DNA or just flat out refuse give an opinion on the matter.

I have yet to see a plausable explanation for the extra dna on the clasp.

I will have to go back and check but if I recall the existence of possibly two additional partial profiles in the mix on the bra clasp were both considered to be female by experts on both sides.

I agree with Alt+F4 that the introduction of these 2 prison inmates in the appeals is not a good strategy.
 
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If the defense believed it was contamination why aren't they asking for DNA samples from the scientific police and any cases they were working on at the time to compare against the unknown DNA on the bra clasp?

On the surface of it, they seem to believe the extra DNA belongs to the mobster's brother and/or the mystery guy the baby killer spoke of.

This why I think the defense will lose the appeal. The best avenue of approach would be to push the contamination angle...hard. They choose not to. The defense choose to go with two absolute lies by convicted murderers. Do you really think the jury is going to believe anything coming from the mouth of someone who beat an 18-month old baby to death with a shovel?

Why should the jury believe anything out of the mouth of a convicted and corrupt prosecutor?
 
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