How can we punish the TSA Gate Rapers?

[mhaze]

"Damaging or rupturing" is not the issue so much as "bringing it down". Larger amounts of explosive have a better chance of doing that than the smaller amounts which could be concealed in a body cavity.

Im having too much fun today to do the math and am not inclined to post it, but what you are saying is simply not true.

 

[varwoche]

You know, racial profiling is just one of many ways to profile, and this has been addressed in this thread.

A Pakistani passport stamp, for example, for someone not from Pakistan should be a red flag. Paying cash for a first-class ticket despite having no discernable income is another. Carrying little luggage for a long trip is another. There's lots of ways to profile without resorting to racially profiling.

Just what I mentioned above would have been enough to have flagged the show bomber and the underwear bomber.

Sounds reasonable. (Except for the TSA knowing about travelers' income part.) But I don't think this is what BigTex71 was referring to in post 206, which was my point of entry.

I'd tolerate a step farther -- citizens of designated countries can be subject to greater scrutiny so far as I'm concerned. But I'd be opposed to using ethnicity (or surname or the like) as a factor. If that means that Europe goes on the list, and white Europeans are subjected to the same enhanced screening as brown Europeans, so be it. Ethnic/racial discrimination just isn't worth it in the grand scheme, imo.

Of course discriminating based on country would piss off the countries, which needs to be figured into the cost/benefit equation.

 

[qayak]

In my view, using 9/11 as an excuse for these scanners is pretty shakey.

The terrorists of 9/11 didn't succeed because a checkpoint missed a few box cutters. The terrorists succeeded because 20-30 years prior, the American travelling public had been indoctrinated not to resist when a hijacking occured. That is the only thing that led to success for the terrorists.

If those same terrorists attempted a 9/11 type attack today, they would be stomped to death by every passenger on the plane.

My advice to TSA . . .Forget the scanners and the inconvenience they cause. You take care of the explosives in bags and metal detectors for handguns and leave the idiots with boxcutters and nail clippers to the people on the plane.

 

[mhaze]

In my view, using 9/11 as an excuse for these scanners is pretty shakey.

The terrorists of 9/11 didn't succeed because a checkpoint missed a few box cutters. The terrorists succeeded because 20-30 years prior, the American travelling public had been indoctrinated not to resist when a hijacking occured. That is the only thing that led to success for the terrorists.

If those same terrorists attempted a 9/11 type attack today, they would be stomped to death by every passenger on the plane.

My advice to TSA . . .Forget the scanners and the inconvenience they cause. You take care of the explosives in bags and metal detectors for handguns and leave the idiots with boxcutters and nail clippers to the people on the plane.

Tell ya what how about they just take that entire budget for the porno-scanners (one contract for one delivery only was $178 million) and pay it out as prize money each time the passengers bring in a wanna-be-terrorist. Then pay any passenger that films the entire takedown in HD along with resulting insult fest directed toward the terrorist ...

....a $1M bonus.

End of problem.

Much, much more fun.....

And the end of terrorists thinking they can terrorize.

 

[qayak]

Tell ya what how about they just take that entire budget for the porno-scanners (one contract for one delivery only was $178 million) and pay it out as prize money each time the passengers bring in a wanna-be-terrorist. Then pay any passenger that films the entire takedown in HD along with resulting insult fest directed toward the terrorist ...

....a $1M bonus.

End of problem.

Much, much more fun.....

And the end of terrorists thinking they can terrorize.

Good idea! If you want a secure society you have to find a way for society to participate in security, I always say.

In fact, we could install cameras on the plane to capture the stompings take downs and then sell DVD compilations on the interwebs. That would fund the entire program and maybe pay for a decent meal for the passengers, too!

 

[MattusMaximus]

Federal buildings being blown up by white separatists isn't on my list of worries, or the topic of this thread.

I'm sorry, I thought this thread was about terrorism. Interesting to see that you don't consider Timothy McVeigh's murder of 168 of his fellow U.S. citizens in the Oklahoma City bombing to be an act of terrorism

 

[mhaze]

I'm sorry, I thought this thread was about terrorism. Interesting to see that you don't consider Timothy McVeigh's murder of 168 of his fellow U.S. citizens in the Oklahoma City bombing to be an act of terrorism

Oh. Nope.

It's entitled "how do we punish the TSA Gate Rapers."

Well. Unless you are considering "TSA Gate Rapers" as terrorists. And even in my right wing small government lunacy I'm not going that far.

Good idea! If you want a secure society you have to find a way for society to participate in security, I always say.

In fact, we could install cameras on the plane to capture the stompings take downs and then sell DVD compilations on the interwebs. That would fund the entire program and maybe pay for a decent meal for the passengers, too!

Yeah. So we take the whole little scary wanna-be-terrorist plotting against the Great Satan meme and move it into the ....

"Hasta la vista baby" and "Do you feel lucky?" universe.

hehehehehe...

 

[Richard Masters]

Richard, that statement makes me very uncomfortable. Americans have always had "freedom of movement" in our country -- see my post #180 upthread. For most Americans, that freedom is meaningless for any travel we want to do over several hundred miles if we don't have access to commercial air flights. Most of us don't have the money to charter or own a private plane. Most of us don't have enough free time off from our jobs to have the option to use alternate means of travel for lengthy trips.

You are right. It's not so much that we have a right to fly, but rather that we are prevented from doing so by all kinds of regulations and physical obstacles set up by government and society. It's not so much an issue of the right to fly, but a restriction of movement.

And you can apparently be subject to that fine even if the TSA web site says that a particular airport doesn't have a backscatter machine and you don't find out otherwise until you are already past the checkpoint. That is what happened to John "Don't Touch My Junk" Tyner.

Yes.

 

[Richard Masters]

...

My advice to TSA . . .Forget the scanners and the inconvenience they cause. You take care of the explosives in bags and metal detectors for handguns and leave the idiots with boxcutters and nail clippers to the people on the plane.

Completely agree.

 

[Segnosaur]

A Pakistani passport stamp, for example, for someone not from Pakistan should be a red flag. Paying cash for a first-class ticket despite having no discernable income is another.

I think someone else was correct when they questioned how exactly you'd go about investigating just how much income a person has.

Carrying little luggage for a long trip is another.

Not sure if this would put up much of a roadblock for terrorists. After all, it would be no problem for them to buy a suitcase and fill it with random junk they bought at Wal-mart the day before.

Not that I necessarily think the scanners/pat-downs are a good or bad thing (I'd require evidence either way).

Personally, I think we should implement the Bacon test... offer every passenger a BLT, and only test the ones that refuse.

 

[WildCat]

Yeah, we'd all much rather provide financial statements and W2s when buying a ticket or boarding a plane than stand in front of a scanner.

Not what I said. Simply asking about their employment would suffice, while looking for vague or evasive answers. The kinds of questions customs officials ask at the border.

Why not just admit you're a prude with body image issues, instead of pretending you care about "privacy"?

Because that's not the case.

 

[WildCat]

Personally, I think we should implement the Bacon test... offer every passenger a BLT, and only test the ones that refuse.

A real suicide terrorist would eat the sandwich, Allah forgives you for such things if it's necessary to carry out your jihad. It's quite common for suicide bombers to do all sorts of forbidden things just prior to carryoing out their mission.

 

[Nichiro]

.....and why do I get patted almost every time I am taking a flight?
I am informed that "I am picked on random" for thorough checking?

Is it because I am Brown ?

 

[Segnosaur]

Personally, I think we should implement the Bacon test... offer every passenger a BLT, and only test the ones that refuse.

A real suicide terrorist would eat the sandwich, Allah forgives you for such things if it's necessary to carry out your jihad. It's quite common for suicide bombers to do all sorts of forbidden things just prior to carryoing out their mission.

It can't be.... the supposed 9/11 Hijackers were seen drinking prior to carrying out their mission, and I've been told that that's proof that the plot was an inside job!!!! 9/11 conspiracy theorists wouldn't lie to me, would they?

(By the way, I was kidding, about this post and my last.)

 

[Segnosaur]

Yeah, we'd all much rather provide financial statements and W2s when buying a ticket or boarding a plane than stand in front of a scanner.

Not what I said. Simply asking about their employment would suffice, while looking for vague or evasive answers. The kinds of questions customs officials ask at the border.

Of course, that's assuming that
A: The terrorists wouldn't have spent at least a few minutes rehearsing their answers to those predicted questions
B: That the poorly paid saps actually doing the screening would be capable enough to actually recognize such answers as "vague or evasive" (especially when many of the travelers will be from different countries, and may have cultural quirks that might be misleading to any screeners.)

 

[mhaze]

.....and why do I get patted almost every time I am taking a flight?
I am informed that "I am picked on random" for thorough checking?

Is it because I am Brown ?

Who knows? But I'm opposed to "make it fair" by putting everyone through the same, worst conceivable procedures.

Try being a commercial pilot and buying one way tickets and see what happens.

 

[bokonon]

Not what I said. Simply asking about their employment would suffice, while looking for vague or evasive answers. The kinds of questions customs officials ask at the border.

I've never been asked about "employment" at the border. I've been asked about "the purpose of travel" and "length of stay".

What would be "vague or evasive"? Is "writer" too vague? "Trust fund baby"?
Entrepreneur? Investor? Call girl? Do you expect someone to say "I translate Arabic into action plans..."

A scan is quick and painless. Twenty questions is slow, subjective, more intrusive, and impossible to verify.

 

[Ducky]

Who knows? But I'm opposed to "make it fair" by putting everyone through the same, worst conceivable procedures.

Try being a commercial pilot and buying one way tickets and see what happens.

Or a slightly tan musician buying one way tickets.

 

[rwguinn]

Body scans do a whole lot of good.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...ge-tsa-saw-my-junk-missed-12-razor-blades.ars
Is Adam Savage a credible witness?

 

[I Ratant]

I think someone else was correct when they questioned how exactly you'd go about investigating just how much income a person has.

...

.
Was the ticket purchased with a VISA card?
Doesn't need any steeken' prying into the purchaser's income situation, and creates a possible paper trail.