North Korea fires artillery on the South

[BenBurch]

War is not optional. At some time, NK is going to make that decision. When it does, we can just allow them to slaughter millions and occupy the whole peninsula, but is that a good idea?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

War is not optional. At some time, NK is going to make that decision.

That must be the last thing they want.

 

[BenBurch]

That must be the last thing they want.

They have a funny way of showing that.

 

[UWdude]

At some time, NK is going to make that decision.

There is no way you can know that.
But if we do go in, whatever chance of the above happening would be moot, because our going in would make full scale war 100% possible.

They have a funny way of showing that.

What do you suppose SK's military and artillery exercises right on the border this morning were doing? Showing off their new hats and ribbons?

 

[BenBurch]

Where did I say pre-emptive first-strike?

Clue; I didn't.

I am talking about reacting to an attack in such a way as to end the war in hours, not years.

 

[timhau]

What do you suppose SK's military and artillery exercises right on the border this morning were doing?

I'm going out on a limb here, but I guess they were practicing firing their artillery guns. That's best done near the border, because that's where those artillery pieces are, for some reason.

 

[timhau]

NK disputes ownership of the entire peninsula.

That's only a small part of their ongoing feud with reality.

 

[foxholeatheist]

The island in question is a few miles away form my wife's hometown and has a mountain which is popular with day hikers. I fact, I took a field trip there when I was in middle school. I don see any reason for the locals to abandon it altogether. A North Korean sub ran aground only a few miles from my mother's hometown and the locals are still around.

To quote Woody Guthrie, 'Why oh why oh why?"...

A part of me hopes for open war with the North so the regime can be destroyed. Of course, nothing is ever that simple and the civilians would pay the heaviest toll but I have a hard time imagining a peaceful regime change.

 

[Region Rat]

Dear World,
As you are so fond of reminding us, we have a lot of issues on our plate right now. Items such as:
Iraq
Afghanastan
Horrible health care system
Horrible monetary and economic system
Horrible and rampant racism (both the black and latino kind)
Horrible civil and human rights abuses
New START treaty issues
People starving
People with no homes
Airport groping
Horrible political problems
Support of Apartheid regimes
And I'm sure many more.

We don't have any time for any of your nonsense. You take this one. Let us know if you need any help in a few years.

Thank You,
The USA

 

[TragicMonkey]

Does this mean Kim Crazypants is dying, and wishes to have that war finished before he goes on to the next life?

 

[UWdude]

Where did I say pre-emptive first-strike?

Clue; I didn't.

I am talking about reacting to an attack in such a way as to end the war in hours, not years.

agreed. But I think if war were declared in Korea, it would be quite obvious. Nothing like 200 artillery shells fired at an island.

 

[foxholeatheist]

<snip>

What do you suppose SK's military and artillery exercises right on the border this morning were doing? Showing off their new hats and ribbons?

Define 'right on the border'. I think I can see a huge difference in training in one's own country, no matter how close to a border, and deliberately firing into another.

The South would dominate the North militarily, no question. If the US got involved, which personally and selfishly I hope it would, I don't see the war lasting much longer than toppling the regime. In Iraq and Afghanistan we are fighting folks that believe that it is their divine mandate to fight. Once the folks in the North get to see cool **** like rock and roll, Burger King, and freedom (or K-Pop and Lotteria) the worst problem would be handling the mass defections of NK's Soldiers and citizenry.

In any case, the Koreas need to be together again. The North was the industrial powerhouse of the peninsula and the South the agricultural center. Prior to the division there was no cultural or historical difference between the North and South and the border completely arbitrary.

From where I see it, I cannot see any significant change in NK without war. The nature of that war, be it cold or hot, I don't know.

 

[timhau]

Does this mean Kim Crazypants is dying, and wishes to have that war finished before he goes on to the next life?

I don't know why he'd bother. I'm sure there is a leadership position (like Eternal Vice President) that he could hold when dead.

 

[richardm]

South Korea says it will retaliate with missile strikes against the North if faced with "further provocations"

But of course they say that every time:

the South would "resort to measures of self-defense in case of further military provocation of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea."

 

[Region Rat]

The South would dominate the North militarily, no question. If the US got involved, which personally and selfishly I hope it would, I don't see the war lasting much longer than toppling the regime. In Iraq and Afghanistan we are fighting folks that believe that it is their divine mandate to fight. Once the folks in the North get to see cool **** like rock and roll, Burger King, and freedom (or K-Pop and Lotteria) the worst problem would be handling the mass defections of NK's Soldiers and citizenry.

I would hope I'm wrong, but you may be massively underestimating the effects of the brainwashing these people have been subjected to. We said much the same thing in Iraq, as I'm sure you know. If there is even a small percentage of hard core NK's loose in the countryside, we're in the same boat as Iraq.

 

[Quad4_72]

Phew, crisis averted. The United States has stepped in and "strongly condemns" the actions.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AM1S520101123

This made me LOL.

 

[UWdude]

In Iraq and Afghanistan we are fighting folks that believe that it is their divine mandate to fight.

You and your buddies are. count me out.

If the US got involved, which personally and selfishly I hope it would,

Maybe one day you'll win that lottery you want so bad. good luck with that.

I would hope I'm wrong, but you may be massively underestimating the effects of the brainwashing these people have been subjected to. We said much the same thing in Iraq, as I'm sure you know. If there is even a small percentage of hard core NK's loose in the countryside, we're in the same boat as Iraq.

Pfft. brainwashing? Some people are so brainwashed they think their burgers and crappy pop icons they worship on their tv set can make people give up on their homeland in life and death struggles.

 

[Father Dagon]

What's the matter with NK? Did they go full retard at once or what?! At least Ahmadinejad is (for the moment) "only" trash talking Israel.

The artillery pointed at Seoul, is there any intel of NK using automatic, "disposable" artillery pieces, or does they have bunkers filled with people running around or some kind of mix? (Or is the option of retracing the trajectory and retaliate a moot point during a massive assault like this?)

The unification process would makes the DDR's reintegration into Germany seem like a walk in the park. DDR was a free and open society in comparision with NK. The people in NK are kinda living in a undead version of the 50s.

My best hope is that the military makes some kind of coup, trying to limit their losses. Tipping over all the statues of Kim Il-Sung would be a nice gesture. And if not, why doesn't NK and SK duke it out? SK could use international brigades where the soldiers are more thinking of Warhammer than anything else. It would be a blast! Patriotic south koreans fighting side by side with quasi-nihilistic and bored to death westerners. We could have our own Ultramarine chapters and everything!

 

[Checkmite]

NK vehemently denies responsibility for the Cheonan, and it is yet to be seen what this little barrage was about. SK was performing maneuvers at the time in a highly volatile region, and gunfire is exchanged across the DMZ quite regularly. The SKs killed have all been military.

The wounded have not.


Further, SK has made it very clear via international announcements that NK has received, that it's "maneuvers" were a military training exercise that did not involve live fire. Why do you insist on painting North Korea's actions as non-provocative when they clearly not only are, but are intended to be?

That's the problem with your whole "just let them be" mindset, is that it doesn't work because North Korea continues to shoot at people.

 

[Region Rat]

Pfft. brainwashing? Some people are so brainwashed they think their burgers and crappy pop icons they worship on their tv set can make people give up on their homeland in life and death struggles.

OK, so you believe that the NK population is choosing the way they live.


Psst, your credibility is ---------------------> that way.