Airport security - the right way?

Now this is interesting …

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...dures-will-kill-more-americans-on-the-highway

Analyst: TSA methods 'will kill more Americans on highway'

… snip …

As the nation readies for one of the busiest traveling holidays, Steven Horwitz, a professor of economics at St. Lawrence University, told The Hill that the probable spike in road travel, caused by adverse feelings towards the Transportation Security Administration’s (TSA) new screening procedures, could also lead to more car-related deaths. 

“Driving is much more dangerous than flying, as you are far more likely to be killed in an automobile accident mile-for-mile than you are in an airplane,” said Horwitz. “The result will be that the new TSA procedures will kill more Americans on the highway.”

… snip …

And earlier this week in protest of the screening measure a group began organizing a “National Opt-Out Day” for next Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving and one of the heaviest sky trafficked days of the year.
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Beware unintended consequences.

http://catholiconline.com/travel/story.php?id=39263

Next week, 94 percent of Thanksgiving travelers nationally are expected to drive - up from 86 percent in 2008 and 80 percent in 2000, according surveys conducted by AAA.
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That's MILLIONS of additional people in cars, perhaps not all as a result of TSA's most recent action but as a result of making air travel less convenient in general over the last several years.

Now Wikipedia indicates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_safety ) that the risk of death per passenger mile in a car is about 60 times higher than in a plane. But that might be a little high. According to the US National Safety Council, the scheduled airline death rate is about 0.04 per hundred million passenger miles while the automobile death rate is 0.86 per hundred million passenger miles, a ratio of about 20 to one. But even that might be high because the biggest risk in air travel is on takeoff and landing and each flight has just one of those. Wikipedia indicates that death per journeys is about 3 times more likely by car than by air. So …
 
Meanwhile, the Obama adminstration let's Ahmed Ghailani escape justice and calls it a "victory". :mad:
 
: From me.. I question the claim that the TSA pat-down would have found the underwear bomber.
Do ALL airports around the world follow the TSA dictates?
Or is any checking done randomly and cursorily?
I'm betting this is what happens outside the US to passengers coming this way.
I hope I never have to fly anywhere, with this crap going on.
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Response from a frequent traveler...

I can answer your question. In foreign countries, EVERYONE walks through a metal detector AND is patted down -- EVERYONE. There are lines for men, and lines for women -- the women's line always goes about 5 times faster than the men's line, and there's a privacy area so the men can't watch the women getting patted down.

Here's the critical difference -- most of the foreign "security" is just for show. They don't really seem to care about anything -- I've walked through and set off metal detectors (at my hotel -- NOT at the airport), and they've just waved me on through.

I will admit that an X-ray security screener took a tape measure out of a buddy's carry-on luggage in Qatar -- the security guy said, "It's not allowed." So my buddy had to give it up and put it on top of the X-ray monitor with some other nick-nacks collected by the secutiry guy. The strange thing is that my buddy got through all the USA security with the tape measure in his carry-on luggage, and then got "busted" in Qatar... I guess these guys ARE looking for something -- I just don't know what they're really doing..
 
Segnosaur said:
Probably nothing, except for maybe the effectiveness.

If its a bomb that is small enough to be hidden on your body, it will be limited in size. It could kill some people (security workers, civilians in line) and probably throw the airport into chaos for a while, but the death toll and overall effects will probably be much less than if they managed to set off the bomb on the plane (likely causing a crash, with the death of everyone on board.)

Plus, setting off the explosives in the airport (rather than on the plane) might almost be seen as a victory for airport security (as in "see? we stopped the bad men from crashing planes).
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No, I think you completely missed the point. There is no INTENTION of bombing on the plane... he walks into the security area (hundreds of people around including TSA) and sets of a briefcase bomb. This is terrorism at it's most effective because it makes people afraid to be at the airport, not just afraid to be on the plane. He has essentially co-opted the security system to make his attack more deadly, and there is probably nothing that can be done to stop it. (let's see... we'll have a pre screening location before the screening... that'll fix it)
 
I Ratant said:
I will admit that an X-ray security screener took a tape measure out of a buddy's carry-on luggage in Qatar -- the security guy said, "It's not allowed." So my buddy had to give it up and put it on top of the X-ray monitor with some other nick-nacks collected by the secutiry guy.
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Er, how exactly is a tape measure a threat? Are they afraid of some unwanted measuring taking place on the aircraft?
 
177962.jpg


Don't touch my junk!
 
Dr. Keith said:
Imagine a suitcase bomb at every major US airport, or just the top 5 hubs. That would shut down air travel far more than a single plane coming down.
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Bastard! Oh man, I hope Al Quaeda doesn't read the JREF forums... :(


You know, I don't see why these scanners are so controversial. The people looking at them can't see faces, can't have any cell phones or cameras in their office with which to photograph the images, and they only get to see the image for a short time anyway. I've passed through one already, and I did a King Tut pose. I've got plenty more planned, too. Sumo stance, Yoga stance, Jesus pose, Michael Jordan, etc. To me, it almost seems like the scanners are controversial because people are arrogant enought to believe that the entire world WANTS to see them naked.

TSA's methods need not become more aggressive, as things seem to be working fine now. Passengers are irritated, sure, but the craziest thing to happen on an airplane since the Shoe Bomber guy was that JetBlue flight attendant going nuts, right?

The only thing the media's fixation with TSA is doing is creating more xenophobia. You're welcome, Islam. :rolleyes:
 
MikeSun5 said:
..

You know, I don't see why these scanners are so controversial. The people looking at them can't see faces, can't have any cell phones or cameras in their office with which to photograph the images, and they only get to see the image for a short time anyway. ...
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Perhaps it's the arrogant, "we can ignore the 4th amendment whenever we damned please and you can't do anything about it" component that upsets people. That is certainly what upsets me.
 
jayh said:
Perhaps it's the arrogant, "we can ignore the 4th amendment whenever we damned please and you can't do anything about it" component that upsets people. That is certainly what upsets me.
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Or perhaps the fact that " The people looking at them can't see faces, can't have any cell phones or cameras in their office with which to photograph the images, and they only get to see the image for a short time anyway." is pretty much prevarication, anyway, since such photos are showing up on the internet...
 
rwguinn said:
Or perhaps the fact that " The people looking at them can't see faces, can't have any cell phones or cameras in their office with which to photograph the images, and they only get to see the image for a short time anyway." is pretty much prevarication, anyway, since such photos are showing up on the internet...
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The process fits fully under the definition of sexual assault in pretty much any state of the union. The process is an involuntary search without warrant or probable cause. Why would it remain confined to airports?

Some of us care about those things.
 
One more thing.
Grovel. Let the government agents do whatever they want. Because they're protecting you

In the past 9 years, we have not had any significant terror attacks, not at any easy targets, not at theaters, not at shopping malls, not at amusement parks. If it were only the 'vigilance' of the TSA that was protecting us, why have not the terrorists branched out?

They could have. At any time. Yet we're told that because no planes have been successfully bombed, that unconstitutional Homeland Security thuggery has been justified. Sadly too many people believe it.

Why do Americans fear terrorists more than they love liberty?
 
jayh said:
Perhaps it's the arrogant, "we can ignore the 4th amendment whenever we damned please and you can't do anything about it" component that upsets people. That is certainly what upsets me.
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That's fair enough, but I haven't seen that argument on any newsstands regarding the actual scanners. To put it plainly, I think most people are worried about the apparent nudity. The US Govt. has been dancing on the 4th Amendment for years, and I doubt these silly scanners are the back-breaking straw.

rwguinn said:
Or perhaps the fact that " The people looking at them can't see faces, can't have any cell phones or cameras in their office with which to photograph the images, and they only get to see the image for a short time anyway." is pretty much prevarication, anyway, since such photos are showing up on the internet...
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Prevarication, you say? I suppose this is where you provide some type of link to prove that statement?

The photos "showing up on the internet" seem to be examples of what images will look like, rather than actual stolen images of random people from various airports. Do you have any proof to the contrary?
 
jayh said:
Why do Americans fear terrorists more than they love liberty?
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Real quick: by "liberty," do you really mean "not having to be scanned and searched before boarding a flight?"
 
rwguinn said:
Going where I want to go within my own country without having to get the Government's permission would be a good start
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Live in Pyongyang, do ya? That sucks. :(

Here in America, we can go where we want when we want, but there are people in place to make sure we do it safely. There are people in our country that disagree with the safety measures and are willing to sacrifice them for the sake of convenience, but at least they don't get locked up for speaking their minds like they do in your country.
 
MikeSun5 said:
Live in Pyongyang, do ya? That sucks. :(

Here in America, we can go where we want when we want, but there are people in place to make sure we do it safely. There are people in our country that disagree with the safety measures and are willing to sacrifice them for the sake of convenience, but at least they don't get locked up for speaking their minds like they do in your country.
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"There is none so blind as he who will not see..."
 
BeAChooser said:
http://www.newser.com/story/105750/tsa-takes-nail-clippers-from-gun-toting-soldier.html

Feeling safer, folks? :rolleyes:
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It's from Redstate. From the actual article:

I’m getting a lot of emails asking if this is actually true and is this person actually someone I know. (1) Yes it is true — it is too absurd to be made up. (2) Yes, I know the person.
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...And that person is anonymous. But he says he knows him so it must be true. Yeah, that sounds legit.

Also, the TSA allows nail clippers on board.

http://blog.tsa.gov/2008/01/lighters-nail-clippers-and-lithium.html
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm

I'm calling "fake."
 
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