Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[platonov]

As I understand it, Steve Moore is back in Seattle this week for more media interviews.

Steve Moore took the initiative to offer his services to Injustice in Perugia, which is not officially affiliated with the Friends of Amanda. Anne Bremner is one of the founders of the Friends of Amanda, which is not officially affiliated with Injustice in Perugia.

Sounds like the distinction between the PFoJ & the JPF to me.

Either way the modern version of scribbling graffiti on the walls wont make a difference.

Except insofar as some aspects of the campaign [references to the victim & her family for example] are distasteful to many & probably counter productive.

.

 

[Withnail1969]

From Candace Dempsey's latest blog entry:



http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/228910.asp

As I said earlier on this thread, Mignini is controlling every aspect of this appeal. Obviously it's against the most basic principles of justice that the same judges should be dealing with the original case and the appeal.

Amanda clearly isn't going to get anything approaching a fair trial from these Perugia hillbillies.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

interests of justice

This is pretty old news.

But good news, all the same.

Ms. Comodi misrepresented the time of Amanda's first call to Edda during her cross examination at the trial (as discussed upthread), despite having access to her phone records. Mr. Mignini now stands convicted himself. How are the interests of justice served by their involvement?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

SNIP

So why won't the Italian authorities allow the drive to be sent to Japan? The data on the drive is Amanda's. The cost will be covered by Amanda's family. The Italian experts have already failed to recover the data on this drive that they destroyed in the first place.

The only thing I see holding it up is the Italian's pride. But the Italian's shouldn't have any pride left in this matter. Those bumbling idiots that they called experts were absolutely stupid in the way they tried to recover the data.
SNIP

Dan O.,

This is a nice summary of the computer drive issue. Thanks.

 

[Justinian2]

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
Some believe it was Sun-tzu Chinese general & military strategist however there is no documented history of this. Was actually first said by "Michael Corleone" in The Godfather Part II

 

[platonov]

That's not the point. Perhaps I should have made it impossible for you to do a partial quote. I assumed a little intelligence in this Ice Age herd. Perhaps you are trying to be the sloth in this 'Ice age' herd.

I'm the squirrel that chases the nut.

The nut is the goal of winning the appeal.

So you are the squirrel & TC is the nut - have I got that right ?
The preponderance of nuts is confusing

But to more serious matters: have you seen the translated defence appeal docs.
How are they treating the 'staged break in' - is there any talk of 2nd storey men, or the ballistics of rocks, or Filomena being messy or a liar, or TV cables & wardrobes, or spidermen, or lose limbed Africans swinging from the eaves ??

Or are they glossing over this part of the case.


PS If I am being accused of being a sloth I shall fall back on quadraginta's defence - that of a contemplative and artistic nature.

.

 

[TomCH]

Ms. Comodi misrepresented the time of Amanda's first call to Edda during her cross examination at the trial (as discussed upthread), despite having access to her phone records. Mr. Mignini now stands convicted himself. How are the interests of justice served by their involvement?

Look at it this way, if somehow they get off, people may actually view them as innocent, rather than viewing them as guilty but getting off due to poor prosecution.

 

[Dan O.]

Wasn't Meredith's computer one of the three that were damaged in addition to Raffaele's and Amanda's?

They claimed that the only files recovered from Merediths hard drive were school related. It is bizarre that Meredith had no personal photos, no music files given that she had a Mac which comes with iTunes and iPhoto and would be the primary repository and interface for her iPod. Did Meredith use Email? Where is her address book, recent emails? One possibility is that her personal account was protected by FileVault (which is built into the Mac OS) so the file recovery could only access the school work in her unprotected school account.


(*The use of FileVault may actually be illegal in Itally where individuals have no rights to privacy. Was Meredith an international criminal?!)

 

[platonov]

Groundhog day & time travel all in one.

Ms. Comodi misrepresented the time of Amanda's first call to Edda during her cross examination at the trial (as discussed upthread), despite having access to her phone records. Mr. Mignini now stands convicted himself. How are the interests of justice served by their involvement?

halides1


Is 'Comodi lies' back on the agenda, again ??


This 'perplexity' over the 12.47 call has been dealt with already [at some length] upthread.

.

 

[Withnail1969]

Look at it this way, if somehow they get off, people may actually view them as innocent, rather than viewing them as guilty but getting off due to poor prosecution.

If somebody is appealing against a decision, how can the judges who are alleged to have made the incorrect decision in the first trial judge the appeal?

Some relevant principles of natural justice:

# A person making a decision should declare any personal interest they may have in the proceedings.
# A person who makes a decision should be unbiased and act in good faith. He or she therefore cannot be one of the parties in the case, or have an interest in the outcome. This is expressed in the Latin maxim, nemo iudex in causa sua: "no man is permitted to be judge in his own cause".
# Proceedings should be conducted so they are fair to all the parties - expressed in the Latin maxim audi alteram partem: "let the other side be heard".
# Each party to a proceeding is entitled to ask questions and contradict the evidence of the opposing party.
# A decision-maker should take into account relevant considerations and extenuating circumstances, and ignore irrelevant considerations.

 

[pilot padron]

Same Judges for Appeal ??

As I said earlier on this thread, Mignini is controlling every aspect of this appeal. Obviously it's against the most basic principles of justice that the same judges should be dealing with the original case and the appeal.

Amanda clearly isn't going to get anything approaching a fair trial from these Perugia hillbillies.

Concluding 'evidence based' slur segment of above argument noted with appropriate respect.

But ...the same *judges*...

Really now ????

 

[christianahannah]

They claimed that the only files recovered from Merediths hard drive were school related. It is bizarre that Meredith had no personal photos, no music files given that she had a Mac which comes with iTunes and iPhoto and would be the primary repository and interface for her iPod. Did Meredith use Email? Where is her address book, recent emails? One possibility is that her personal account was protected by FileVault (which is built into the Mac OS) so the file recovery could only access the school work in her unprotected school account.


(*The use of FileVault may actually be illegal in Itally where individuals have no rights to privacy. Was Meredith an international criminal?!)

Was this done later (recovery from Meredith's computer)? According to the motivations, page 299, the Postal Police were not able to recover anything from Meredith's hard drive, as well as a second computer from Raffaele's flat and Amanda's computer.

As far as the accused Raffaele Sollecito goes, the Postal Police technical examination was carried out only on his MacBook PRO Apple laptop. Insofar as his other PC, an ASUS L300D, as well as Amanda Knox’s Toshiba serial number 7541811OK and Meredith Kercher’s G4 iBook sustained damage, it was impossible to retrieve data from their respective hard drives.

 

[TomCH]

If somebody is appealing against a decision, how can the judges who are alleged to have made the incorrect decision in the first trial judge the appeal?

Where did you get the idea that the judges are the same?

They are NOT the same, the prosecutors are (though the lead prosecutor is new).

 

[Justinian2]

So you are the squirrel & TC is the nut - have I got that right ?
The preponderance of nuts is confusing

But to more serious matters: have you seen the translated defence appeal docs. How are they treating the 'staged break in' - is there any talk of 2nd storey men, or the ballistics of rocks, or Filomena being messy or a liar, or TV cables & wardrobes, or spidermen, or lose limbed Africans swinging from the eaves ?? Or are they glossing over this part of the case.
PS If I am being accused of being a sloth I shall fall back on quadraginta's defence - that of a contemplative and artistic nature.

.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Appeal.html has the appeal summary. I haven't seen the full appeal in english.

I would guess that the appeal will address the break-in at some time or another. It is a double edged sword. Make it clear that Guede's MO was to break into upper floors and the case gets easier. Otherwise a staged break-in suggests that there was prior knowledge of the crime and time to clean up, etc.

However, it's absurd to stage a 2nd story break-in as most alarm installers tell you most break-ins are via the back door & sometimes the front door. First floor windows are also used especially if they are hidden from the road.

No alarm installer ever suggested alarming the second floor.

Guede had no income. He was plausibly supporting himself with his second floor break-ins.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

If somebody is appealing against a decision, how can the judges who are alleged to have made the incorrect decision in the first trial judge the appeal?

Some relevant principles of natural justice:

# A person making a decision should declare any personal interest they may have in the proceedings.
# A person who makes a decision should be unbiased and act in good faith. He or she therefore cannot be one of the parties in the case, or have an interest in the outcome. This is expressed in the Latin maxim, nemo iudex in causa sua: "no man is permitted to be judge in his own cause".
# Proceedings should be conducted so they are fair to all the parties - expressed in the Latin maxim audi alteram partem: "let the other side be heard".
# Each party to a proceeding is entitled to ask questions and contradict the evidence of the opposing party.
# A decision-maker should take into account relevant considerations and extenuating circumstances, and ignore irrelevant considerations.

6 days away from the start of the appeals - now is as good a time as any for FOA'ers to start making up your excuses why poor Amanda and Raff will still be in jail once it's over.

Don't get me wrong, I see a slight chance that they are innocent, and if so I hope they do get off then, but if they are guilty, they can not pay hard or long enough.

 

[Dan O.]

Was this done later (recovery from Meredith's computer)? According to the motivations, page 299, the Postal Police were not able to recover anything from Meredith's hard drive, as well as a second computer from Raffaele's flat and Amanda's computer.

I have in my notes:

The two computer disks belonging to R. Sollecito and PC Apple Meredith Kercher, the Fujitsu and Hitachi, were recovered after activities at the company in Krollontrak content and made available to Prof. Bernaschi, while attempting to retrieve data from disk Toshiba PCs belonging to Mrs Amanda Knox was not possible due to a high rate of errors possibly caused by damage to the platter surfaces head crash.
​

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Comodi's misrepresentation

halides1


Is 'Comodi lies' back on the agenda, again ??


This 'perplexity' over the 12.47 call has been dealt with already [at some length] upthread.

.

platonov,

I cannot be certain that Comodi lied, but she has no excuse for making that mistake, if that is what it was. She also got the time difference between Seattle and Perugia wrong.

 

[Solange305]

Not when those eighteen or whatever judges with hundreds of years of experience try to tell us pi equals 3.00. That's part of being a skeptic. It however does not extend to pretending ad hominem, semantics and pedantry 'discredit' twenty five years of FBI experience.

That's just a smear, and that usually doesn't speak well of the arguments available to the ones doing the smearing.

Instead of lying, just admit you are wrong. The mistakes Steve Moore made are not semantics. They are mistakes, plain and simple. You can call them what you want, but it doesn't make it true. Stop trying to backpedal and just admit what you said was a stupid statement, or at least a silly way of stating it.

Moore said that the court concluded Amanda made all three wounds to Meredith, that is wrong. He said none of the prints or stains contained Meredith's dna, and that is factually wrong. He said that Amanda recanted her accusation against Patrick as soon as she got some food, that is untrue unless Amanda went without eating for two weeks. If you think that an FBI agent with 25 years experience, who has decided to put himself front and center in this case, should not know these kinds of things, that is fine, we can agree to disagree. But you cannot sit here and call it what it is not: a smear or "semantics".

By the way, in regards to this:

That's just a smear, and that usually doesn't speak well of the arguments available to the ones doing the smearing

What do you think Mary calling Mignini a "fat-faced wino pervert" says about her? Or let me guess, in your alternate universe where you get to decide what words mean what, that isn't considered a "smear". Got it!

 

[Justinian2]

6 days away from the start of the appeals - now is as good a time as any for FOA'ers to start making up your excuses why poor Amanda and Raff will still be in jail once it's over.

Don't get me wrong, I see a slight chance that they are innocent, and if so I hope they do get off then, but if they are guilty, they can not pay hard or long enough.

The guy in the black hat did it according to old movies.
The SP did it according to LRH.
The non-white did it according to the KKK and neo-Nazi's.
The pretty woman did it according to Magnini.
Absence of evidence is evidence of absence according to the FBI.
The sexiest person did it according to the tabloids.
The roomate/housemate is presumed guiltly before being proven innocent by most police, prosecutors and judges.

I already have my excuses why poor Amanda and Raff could still be in jail once it's over.

A new judge would help. I believe there is a new judge.

 

[TomCH]

platonov,

I cannot be certain that Comodi lied, but she has no excuse for making that mistake, if that is what it was. She also got the time difference between Seattle and Perugia wrong.

Simply because for one week there was a difference in the dime difference, as Europe changes on the last Sunday in October, and in 2007 the US started changing on the first Sunday in November.