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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Lothian said:
Come on DDT, You know that to be a simple question it needs to be multichoice.

Doc please tick the religion you consider true.
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To be fair to Doc, you must present him with a complete list. You missed a couple Dutch reformed ones, You listed only these three:

Lothian said:
Dutch Reformed Church
Netherlands Reformed Congregations
Orthodox Christian Reformed Church
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while there are at least 10, see the list here. And that's after the two biggest ones merged (together with the Lutherans) - actually, the first in that list above doesn't exist anymore, it's one of those three.

To help you in copying, here's the list:

* Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN) formed in 2004 from the union of
o the Dutch Reformed Church (NHK),
o the Reformed Churches in the Netherlands (GKN)
o and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in the Kingdom of the Netherlands (ELK)
* Christian Reformed Churches (CGK)
* Reformed Churches in the Netherlands (Liberated) (GKV)
* Netherlands Reformed Churches (NGK)
* Reformed Congregations (GG)
* Old-Reformed Congregations in the Netherlands (OGGN)
* Reformed Congregations in the Netherlands (GGN)
* Restored Reformed Church (HHK)
* Continued Reformed Churches in the Netherlands (VGKN)
* Reformed Church (Restored)

And looking at the Dutch wiki page, I see they missed an 11th one, the "Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland (buiten verband)", which split from the GGN in 1980.
 
zooterkin said:
How many of those spread Christianity by the sword?
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No sure but one certainly has a lot of explaining to do.....

Lothian said:
...snip...
Universal Life
British-Israel-World Federation
Church of Jesus Christ-Christian (Aryan Nations)
Kingdom Identity Ministries
LaPorte Church of Christ
The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord
Revival Centres International
The Revival Fellowship
Worldwide Church of God
.....snip.....
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ddt said:
To be fair to Doc, you must present him with a complete list. You missed a couple Dutch reformed ones, You listed only these three:



while there are at least 10, see the list here. And that's after the two biggest ones merged (together with the Lutherans) - actually, the first in that list above doesn't exist anymore, it's one of those three.

To help you in copying, here's the list:

* Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN) formed in 2004 from the union of
o the Dutch Reformed Church (NHK),
o the Reformed Churches in the Netherlands (GKN)
o and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in the Kingdom of the Netherlands (ELK)
* Christian Reformed Churches (CGK)
* Reformed Churches in the Netherlands (Liberated) (GKV)
* Netherlands Reformed Churches (NGK)
* Reformed Congregations (GG)
* Old-Reformed Congregations in the Netherlands (OGGN)
* Reformed Congregations in the Netherlands (GGN)
* Restored Reformed Church (HHK)
* Continued Reformed Churches in the Netherlands (VGKN)
* Reformed Church (Restored)

And looking at the Dutch wiki page, I see they missed an 11th one, the "Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland (buiten verband)", which split from the GGN in 1980.
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Interestingly, there were some Scottish churches missing too. I doubt that DOC is in one of these. The Free Church people used to snoop on their members to make sure they didn't do something sinful like drive to church.

  • Church of Scotland
  • Free Church of Scotland (the "wee frees")
  • Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) (the "wee wee frees")
  • United Free Church of Scotland
  • Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland
 
carlitos said:
Interestingly, there were some Scottish churches missing too. I doubt that DOC is in one of these. The Free Church people used to snoop on their members to make sure they didn't do something sinful like drive to church.


[*]Church of Scotland
[*]Free Church of Scotland (the "wee frees")
[*]Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) (the "wee wee frees")
[*]United Free Church of Scotland
[*]Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland
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Sorry. I used an old list I had. However I can assure you that the extra choices does not change the odds of DOC picking the one that is true
 
DOC said:
No, they just had animal skins tied to them and were fed to wild dogs, or were impaled and then set on fire to provided light for Nero's parties. Not exactly great selling points for attracting new converts.
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Do you have any evidence that shows that Christians, if they ever were subjected to such treatment, were particularly singled out?

But multiple credible reports of miracles and a resurrection could have even overrode those fears.
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Not sure how to parse that sentence (I think you mean 'overridden', rather than 'overrode', by the way). Does the "multiple credible reports" apply to the resurrection, or just the miracles? What have you got in the way of evidence for the resurrection beyond conflicting third-hand reports, which are not even consistent regarding who was there?
 
I believe that there is (currently) an estimated 38,000 Christian denominations, not counting the one whose adherents were spread by the sword ( all over the ground), mostly by other peace loving Christians.

Maybe not posting the whole list, though...
 
Simon39759 said:
I believe that there is (currently) an estimated 38,000 Christian denominations, not counting the one whose adherents were spread by the sword ( all over the ground), mostly by other peace loving Christians.

Maybe not posting the whole list, though...
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And of course each of them are positive that their understanding of god is the only valid one and the other 37,999 get it wrong.
 
Rincewind said:
Actually, "The Vineyard" sounds interesting....

:)
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If it's the same one that I attended back in the day, it had its moments. They're a Charismatic church that believes in the Fruits of the Spirit™, the Armor of God™, and Laying on of Hands™. Their worship music, while better than the hyms of the Presb. church that I attended at the same time, was insipid. Better than most pagan music, mind you (tell me, why is it that a religion that supposedly worships life has nothing but death dirges for music?), but to twinkily for my taste.
 
dafydd said:
Is there a Church Of Wales?They called it the Church Of England in the valleys,before most of the churches were converted into cinemas and bingo halls.
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Eglwys yng Nghymru (Church in Wales)

To be fair, it is part of the CofE but they do have their own identity as such. I think it's all down to the Welsh parochialism and the distaste of all things Saes.

Anyhow, DOC wouldn't know any different. They don't keep slaves servants to beat. expose to mild sunburn.
 
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GrandMasterFox said:
And of course each of them are positive that their understanding of god is the only valid one and the other 37,999 get it wrong.
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Which is why I do feel that any Anti-Theocratic group like ours must reflect such a divergence of interests within its power-base, provided the Movement never forgets that it is the inalienable right of every man (or woman) to rid himself (or herself) of the birthright of every man (or woman) to play a part in our movement

Follow the Splitters!
 
Rincewind said:
Didn't the Pilgrim Fathers (Puritans) leave for the New World not because they were being persecuted, but because they weren't allowed to persecute others?

I dimly recall reading that ages ago, so sadly can't give any reference.
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That reminds me of my favorite quote from de Camp's Against The Fall of Night. The hero, Martin Padway, is a young American doctoral student who finds himself transported by auctorial fiat from Rome, 1939 C.E., to Rome, roughly 535 C.E. At one point the following conversation takes place in a tavern:

"... How do you like Rome?" The man had very large and very black eyebrows.

"Fine, so far," said Padway.

"Well, you haven't seen anything," said the man. "It hasn't been the same since the Goths came." He lowered his voice conspiratorially: "Mark my words, it won't be like this always, either!"

"You don't like the Goths?"

"No! Not with the persecution we have to put up with!"

"Persecution?" Padway raised his eyebrows.

"Religious persecution. We won't stand for it forever."

"I thought the Goths let everybody worship as they pleased."

"That's just it! We Orthodox are forced to stand around and watch Arians and Monophysites and Nestorians and Jews going about their business unmolested, as if they owned the country. If that isn't persecution, I don't know what is!"

"You mean that you're persecuted because the heretics and such are not?"

"Certainly, isn't that obvious? We won't stand -- What's your religion, by the way?"
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(Padway quickly learns to answer this last question with "Well, I'm a Congregationalist. That's the nearest thing to _____ we have in my country" -- with the blank filled in with his interlocutor's particular sect.)

tsig said:
First they fell on their knees then they fell on the Indians.

A quote ?
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"The Pilgrims landed, worthy men,
And, saved from wreck on raging seas,
They fell upon their knees, and then
Upon the aborigines.

In thankfulness they planned a feast
On what the land could then afford.
The grace consumed an hour at least,
Whence rose the phrase: 'the festive bored'."

It's got to be thirty years since I read that -- in Smithsonian magazine? I can't remember.
 
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