The Great Thermate Debate

[TruthersLie]

No timers found you say huh, why would they survive? Why would they not have been pulverised to dust along with the rest of the building contents and materials? Atleast the perps had a way that they could ensure any physical evidence of their wrong doings would be destroyed and not found later on in
the mess they generated.

Boy this is soooo complicated...

so it is planned by a known idiot, and then built by the A team in invisiblity suits...

gee, wouldn't it have been easier just to fly a jet into the building at high speed and let it burn?

 

[alienentity]

LOL. Love this comment from Dr Steven Jones
'The cat's-meow experiment would involve a small chip of the red/gray material found in the WTC dust, a powerful pyrotechnic, placed next to a sparkler which in turn is in contact with your thermate-cutter material. The red-chip would be ignited by sending a current through it, using a radio-receiver to receive the command, thus ignited remotely. This would also increase safety.

One could use the red-chip as an initiator all by itself if a large enough chip could be found in the WTC dust, but our findings show that this material is brittle and has been reduced to small chips (evidently from the explosive demolition process itself).'

ETA Oh no he di'int!

 

[HyJinX]

this thread is stupid.

Agreed. I think Red just didn't want to be out-dimwitted by the WTC Dust character.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

"No timers found you say huh, why would they survive? Why would they not have been pulverised to dust along with the rest of the building contents and materials? Atleast the perps had a way that they could ensure any physical evidence of their wrong doings would be destroyed and not found later on in
the mess they generated.

They would survive....they usually find remains of bombs timers and often use this evidence to catch the bombers. Many of the columns fell out clear off the resulting fires yet none show charges were used and none had remains of charges or timers......

 

[Edx]

Hold on why do people insist that there would have to be charges thermitic or
not planetd everywhere according to you guys and the OCT all you would have to do is rigg the area of the building where the plane went in about ten floors blow the charges dropping the upper section onto the lower section

And thats why even we could come up with a conspiracy theory that makes more sense.,

Instead you guys claim thermate was used in devices installed like the guy in the OP's video suggests. Jones claims also that nano thermite was painted onto steel and it becomes a high explosive but also additionally was used to set off traditional explosives like C4 and HMX. And Gage also says that they packed so much intensive explosives into the towers that it propelled steel hundreds of feet yet at the same times argues it was quiet because they used thermite (which doesnt explode, and definitely not with that intensity, but if it did would still be just as loud)

And then you have the claim that the towers had to have explosives planted at all levels as the top part cant crush the bottom part, according to truthers. That they also planted explosives in the basement for some reason and also had all these explosives going off pre-maturely all over the place while firefighters were inside, throwing people around, yet are so weak as explosives they dont cause any blast injuries to anyone at all on 911, not even ruptured ear drums. In fact they only made explosives that burned people for absolutely no reason and also create a fake jet fuel smell in order to make people think it was actually jet fuel.

If you want to come up with a more sensible demolition theory, then why do you guys still defend such preposterous nonsense from people like Gage, Jones, Chandler and so on?

so hard after all anyway that deals with issue of idiots running everywhere through the towers planted charges and risking getting busted anyone noticing and

Sorry but even your theory requires black ops ninjas installing explosives all over one floor with no one noticing, which is just the start of your problems.

you could always wrap the charges in fire proofing material to stop any premature detonations,

According to truthers pre mature detonations were going off all over the place, but when the actual collapses happened where all this concrete pulverising and steel flinging was meant to be occurring none were even loud enough to be picked up on videos. How is that?

 

[funk de fino]

What about the massive hole that he made in the steel beam it looks
very similar in appearance to the steel that was found from the wtc with the swiss cheese type apearance why dont you guys try explaining that?

Let me guess your just going to deny that it looks similar it really is a waste of
time posting here, JREFS will never admit to anything.

Source a picture of the swiss cheese steel at the WTC and we will compare.

 

[beachnut]

Didn't even bother to watch it I see. How shocking.

There was no melted structural steel the video is a lie, from an idiot liar. Good job exposing idiots trying to back in thermite.

The video lies about the fires, saying they were going out. Not surprised you back idiots pushing moronic lies so stupid they debunk themselves. Good job Gravy Obsessive person.

The video says they found thermite in the dust, an idiotic lie since the energy of the dust never matched thermite. Failure for 9 years and now you push lies outright. You posted lies from an idiot

 

[sheeplesnshills]

The video says they found thermite in the dust, an idiotic lie since the energy of the dust never matched thermite. Failure for 9 years and now you push lies outright. You posted lies from an idiot

[/QUOTE]

Must have been fun playing with all that steel and thermate!

 

[kylebisme]

Because, whatever the delusions of the truth movement, the events of 9/11 are very fully understood, and the anomalies claimed by truthers are simply not real.

The swiss cheese steel reported by FEMA, the iron rich microspheres in the USGS particle atlas, and the thematic nanocomposite found by Harrit et al. are real. On the other hand, the notion that the towers could have come down so quickly and completely absent having been rigged to do so is pure fantasy, hence the reason nobody can produce any semblance of experimental confirmation to support it.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

The "swiss cheese" eroded steel was studied by the Worcester group, and found to have been due to a sulfidation attack, not thermite. Their experimentation showed reaction kinetics on the order of hours to days; that right there eliminates thermate from consideration.

The supposed "thermatic" material from Jones's crew was anything but. This was demonstrated using Jones's and Harrit's own data, and shown to be material that was hardly "thermitic" at all.

This gets pointed out time and time again. You truthers cannot keep beating the drum of disproven proposals.

 

[beachnut]

The swiss cheese steel reported by FEMA, the iron rich microspheres in the USGS particle atlas, and the thematic nanocomposite found by Harrit et al. are real. On the other hand, the notion that the towers could have come down so quickly and completely absent having been rigged to do so is pure fantasy, hence the reason nobody can produce any semblance of experimental confirmation to support it.

The idiot who did the experiment proved no thermite at the WTC. Guess why? You truthers have failed for 9 years and your name, truther, is a lie. Good job remaining in ignorance with Red for over 9 years.


the guy is using political science personal moronic biases to attack 911 issues and failed


thermite leaves iron products, not found at the WTC, oops, I told you the clue

It was funny, the moron who did the video misses the fact he proved no thermite was used at the WTC, and he makes up the biggest fantasy, the columns were loaded with themite during construction before 1971. Delusions of 911 truth are so stupid only a few very gullible followers believe this insanity.

 

[ergo]

The "swiss cheese" eroded steel was studied by the Worcester group, and found to have been due to a sulfidation attack, not thermite. Their experimentation showed reaction kinetics on the order of hours to days; that right there eliminates thermate from consideration.

Um, maybe because they were looking at how that could have happened over days and weeks in a hot debris pile? Obviously, as is pointed out, sulfidation could also occur through thermate.

The supposed "thermatic" material from Jones's crew was anything but.This was demonstrated using Jones's and Harrit's own data, and shown to be material that was hardly "thermitic" at all.

This gets pointed out time and time again. You truthers cannot keep beating the drum of disproven proposals.

Where is your peer-reviewed paper on it?

 

[beachnut]

Um, maybe because they were looking at how that could have happened over days and weeks in a hot debris pile? Obviously, as is pointed out, sulfidation could also occur through thermate.



Where is your peer-reviewed paper on it?

Jones paid to have his paper published and data in the paper proves he did not find thermite. Read the paper and weep for your failed moronic movement of lies. At least Gage travels and puts away 75K a years fooling people like you.

No sulfidation could not occur through thermate, it leaves products fused to the steel. Oops, bee dunked by themselves in the video which clearly shows thermate products attacked to the steel. self bee dunked

The steel sample from WTC 7 was corroded not melted; the videos talks of melted steel, there was no melted steel found at the WTC. bee dunked by evidence, you are adding to over 9 years of failure ... can't 911 truth read? Why are you guys call truth when all you do is lie?

Morons with video will not earn a Pulitzer Prize. Why? Where is your evidence? Where is your physics?

The nut in the video says the other columns had thermate placed in them during construction! In 1970/71. This is fantasy, and you fall for it.

 

[kylebisme]

The "swiss cheese" eroded steel was studied by the Worcester group, and found to have been due to a sulfidation attack, not thermite.

Thermate, is thermite with sulfer, and causes damage comprable to that of the swiss cheese steel FEMA found.

Their experimentation showed reaction kinetics on the order of hours to days; that right there eliminates thermate from consideration.

Please quote whatever you are referring to here specifically.

The supposed "thermatic" material from Jones's crew was anything but. This was demonstrated using Jones's and Harrit's own data, and shown to be material that was hardly "thermitic" at all.

The highly exothermic reaction and production of iron rich microspheres when it's ignited proves it's thermitic, and most obviously not paint. As for the notion that the XEDS map shows the aluminum platelets are already oxidized, they're not, but rather they're simply coated in a silicon oxide.

thermite leaves iron products, not found at the WTC...

Again, iron rich microspheres are found throughout the dust, as noted in the USGS particle atlas.

...he makes up the biggest fantasy, the columns were loaded with themite during construction before 1971.

You came up with that nonsense on your own.

Regardless, even if the evidence that the buildings we rigged to come down had been buried, you've all still got squat for experimental confirmation to support the notion that the towers could have come down so quickly and completely as the towers did absent such sabotage.

 

[Sunstealer]

Obviously, as is pointed out, sulfidation could also occur through thermate.

I'd like you to find an independent scientific paper that backs that statement up.

Sulphidation occurs through solid state diffusion and is therefore subject to f,i,ck's (see editing reason) Laws of diffusion. If you understand what these laws are then you would see that Time plays a large factor (along with temperature and concentration gradient across the solid/gas interface) in the rate of diffusion.

There simply is not enough time in 1 hour to get corrosion of the steel seen in those samples let alone a few seconds of burning thermate.

If I was performing an experiment to determine a (most likely parabolic) rate constant for sulphidation I would be performing the test past 1000 hrs and I still wouldn't expect to see "swiss cheese" steel.

Lastly no thermate was found in Jones' own paper because he doesn't find enough Sulphur in any of the chips/samples for his material to be thermate - so the thermate debate is dead apart from those too ignorant to know otherwise.

If you wish to start educating yourself I suggest you start by looking at carburising of steels to understand the diffusion process as used to case harden steel.

 

[grandmastershek]

Whatever happened to nanothermite?

Fairly simple as some noted earlier. No discernible explosions just prior to the collapses. And no light indicative of a thermite reaction. Kind of important given that the two main characteristics of each product respectively are totally absent.

 

[triforcharity]

I may have missed it among the filler material that makes it rather too tedious to watch. Can you give me a time stamp for the bit where he demonstrates making a horizontal cut through a vertical column?

Dave

ETA: I see he managed to melt a bit out of the side of one, and make a vertical cut down the middle of one. Neither of these constitutes cutting the column.

Not to mention the fact that he is using relitively thin steel compared to the steel that was used in the towers.

But hey, good job TM!!

(I won't even get started on the fact that he is using thermate instead of thermite/nano-thermite)

 

[beachnut]

Thermate, is thermite with sulfer, and causes damage comprable to that of the swiss cheese steel FEMA found.

As clearly seen in the video, the thermate leaves products fused to steel. Oops, no products found on the FEMA sample, just corroded, not melted steel. No melted steel found, zero samples. you lost, add this to your 9 years of failure pile of junk...

Please quote whatever you are referring to here specifically.

There was study done on steel to replicate the FEMA sample, it took a long time to corrode the steel; you lost again, double this time due to lack of knowledge and zero research.

come prepared next time

The highly exothermic reaction and production of iron rich microspheres when it's ignited proves it's thermitic, and most obviously not paint. As for the notion that the XEDS map shows the aluminum platelets are already oxidized, they're not, but rather they're simply coated in a silicon oxide.

There are iron rich micro-spheres in my yard, you can take the most abundant elements on earth (crust) and you have evidence of the same. My goodness, O, Fe, Si, Al are the most abundant elements in the earths crust and Jones fools you into thinking they mean thermite was used to bring down the WTC; you sure are gullible.

Again, iron rich microspheres are found throughout the dust, as noted in the USGS particle atlas.

And in my backyard. Gee whiz, professor Peabody ...

You came up with that nonsense on your own.

Sorry, in the video the moron states the thermite devices were placed in the shell columns during construction. He is insane, I saved the video in-case his relatives decide to have him committed. Happy-Dale's newest inmate...

Regardless, even if the evidence that the buildings we rigged to come down had been buried, you've all still got squat for experimental confirmation to support the notion that the towers could have come down so quickly and completely as the towers did absent such sabotage.

Sorry, fire and gravity did it. Your inability to comprehend the physics behind a gravity collapse are ironic since gravity is the major energy source in CD.

The collapse of each tower released over 130 TONS of TNT energy due to gravity; you can't comprehend physics so you like delusions made up by morons, you think are experts. 9 years of failure has not stopped you, I would try education to cure your gullibility next. Google and 911 truth have failed you. Try a physics course...

 

[GlennB]

I'll go slightly out on a limb here and award this guy a big round of applause for getting off his arse and actually trying something himself. And with a high degree of skill and ingenuity.

The logical and logistical problems in applying this kind of process at WTC remain insurmountable, however. Not to mention evidence.

 

[triforcharity]

What about the massive hole that he made in the steel beam it looks
very similar in appearance to the steel that was found from the wtc with the swiss cheese type apearance why dont you guys try explaining that?

Let me guess your just going to deny that it looks similar it really is a waste of
time posting here, JREFS will never admit to anything.

Somewhat similar, yes.

Does that hole that he made also have inner-granular melting that occurs at a much lower temperature?

The piece that WPI tested did not reach a temperature as hot as thermite does.