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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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manga versus graphic novels

They make it seem as if there is something new but it may just be recycled as a new story talking about the appeal documents. I didn't see other stories about this but I did run into one from a manga fan that complained about some TV show that made a connection between manga comics and vilolence and mentioned Raffaele. It has a pretty funny (Google translated) quote:

I am reminded of a piece of a song by Caparezza:
" Non guardare Devilman , diventi violento, non leggere Spiderman , diventi violento, non ascoltare Method Man, diventi violento, figurati cos'è restare un giorno in parlamento" "Do not look Devilman, become violent, do not read Spiderman, become violent, do not listen to Method Man, become violent, imagine what a day to stay in parliament"

http://nuvoleparlanti.blogosfere.it/2010/11/devilman-e-trigun-sospettati-di-omicidio.html

Rose,

When I read about manga in The Economist, I received the impression that it was basically the Japanese version of graphic novels, maybe similar to what Alan Moore write. I don't know exactly what Raffaele read, however.
 
When I read about manga in The Economist, I received the impression that it was basically the Japanese version of graphic novels, maybe similar to what Alan Moore write. I don't know exactly what Raffaele read, however.

SomeAlibi posted this a few weeks ago but there was not a cite.

The particular book Raffaele quoted as his favourite Manga is pretty hard stuff in the violence and forced sex zone. The female lead character has her legs amputated to "teach her a lesson" and there is plenty of forced sex.
 
SomeAlibi posted this a few weeks ago but there was not a cite.

Here's one:

"Giuliano Mignini claimed the gruesome murder was carried out after student Raffaele Sollecito, one of the suspects in the case, acted out a dark fantasy stemming from his manga collection.

The prosecutor made specific reference to a comic found in Sollecito's possession called The Last Vampire, that featured scenes of a naked female body slashed with a sword."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...trates-Animation-Fans/Article/200810415127665
 
SomeAlibi posted this a few weeks ago but there was not a cite.


The particular book Raffaele quoted as his favourite Manga is pretty hard stuff in the violence and forced sex zone. The female lead character has her legs amputated to "teach her a lesson" and there is plenty of forced sex.





I think it would be unusual for a "lead" character to have this happen to her unless it was something like tankgirl or robocop, these things are a series of books and you don't normally put the lead character out of commission. If Raffaele was quoted as SomeAlibi said then of course there should be a quote. And why mention this and not mention the name of the manga so people can judge for themselves?

I enjoyed the Kill Bill movies and it had plenty of amputations, blood, and violence but I am not a huge fan of forced sex as in A Clockwork Orange. I read plenty of books with both sex and violence. I just wonder if anybody looking at my library of reading materials would laugh at some of the trash or think I am strange for reading the Hunger Games. There seems to be a huge market for manga and not all of those buying this material are would be killers, obviously.
 
Well, I sure hope I never get charged with sexual assault or murder. They'd find all the evidence they need in my complete Collector's edition of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
 
I enjoyed the Kill Bill movies and it had plenty of amputations, blood, and violence but I am not a huge fan of forced sex as in A Clockwork Orange. I read plenty of books with both sex and violence.

You know yourself....how much do you know about Raffaele Sollecito?
 
Hmmm...no, not ranting. I was just trying to bring the tangent back to my original point. I still think it makes more sense for the guy caught with his hand in the cookie jar to blame someone he 'knew' was there, as opposed to this tortured logic where he has to say something untrue, but no matter.

But do you realize testifying against somebody he knew was there, for him would be a self-incrimination. His version won't be more credible, only more complex to build, and if the other two were not there maybe it could stand, theyr being not able to produce a better version than his, but if they were present on the scene of murder, then they would be able to produce a more credible version of the dinamic in which he is guilty.
Blaming the accomplice is always a stupid choice.
 
I see that the owner of the cottage in Perugia is having trouble finding tenants, owing to it having been the location of the Meredith Kercher murder. I'm sure, therefore, that the owner is really pleased that crime tourists are hanging around taking photographs and placing memorials to the murder victim on the gate of their private property, just to remind everyone of the house's past....

PS: I note that the local papers which reported upon the flowers on the gate assumed that they'd been placed there by a well-meaning Perugia local. I wonder what the papers would think if they knew that they were actually put there by a crime tourist, who never know Meredith Kercher or any of her family or friends, who travelled well over 1,000 miles to specifically visit the scene, and who spent much of his time in Perugia pacing around with a stopwatch and a camera - often well into the small hours of the night....?
 
You know yourself....how much do you know about Raffaele Sollecito?

I fear you're not following the logic very well. It appears that Sollecito's character "defects" were in large part determined from his like of Manga. In other words, the (misguided) logic went: Sollecito collects violent Manga, so therefore he must have personality defects. Cause and effect, you understand? Carts and horses...
 
Well, I sure hope I never get charged with sexual assault or murder. They'd find all the evidence they need in my complete Collector's edition of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Heck, "Tom & Jerry" has more mindless violence (often involving pretty horrific demises) than most people remember... I myself am feeling very non-violent and mellow right now, having just got back from seeing the outstanding Imogen Heap at the Albert Hall :D
 
Inappropriate responses are the mark of the mentally disturbed. It is hard to have an appropriate response sometimes without knowing who is in the audience. Inappropriate grief is nuts, but so is inappropriate sensitivity.

The point is, that nobody should post insensitive things to the family of the victim.
I hope this is something you have learned after your comment about Meredith's fate vs. Amanda's that caused all kinds of dismayed reactions.

Well I think it is agreed Quintavalle's story is a pure fantasy. Not one of the guilters even tries to defend it on logical grounds anymore.

No it is not an agreed fantasy. Thoughtful's presentation of Quintavalle's story makes complete sense. Quintavalle also described Amanda's clothing pretty well spot on, also her eyes and pallor. He is possibly someone with a great memory, such people do exist, and whatever reason he had to remember her, perhaps attraction, he does remember having seen her.

I guess I am still wondering if we all bought a luminol testing kit, how many of us would see positive reactions in our households?

This is the crux for me. For instance, I would love to know if the bare footprints I sometimes see in the sunlight on my hardwood floors would react. I think if I saw studies showing luminol reacting in normal households where nothing unusual happened, then I would have little faith in the results of the luminol investigation. However, if this were true then possibly it would not be used on crime scenes.

I agree with you, and I also would like to point out that the prosecution in effect asked about a luminol-positive spot, "What else besides blood could it be?" This tactic reverses the burden of proof. The prosecution should do its job and offer confirmatory test results, not say to the defense, you need to identify the substance causing the false positive.

So far, there is no evidence that luminol reacts with anything commonly found on household floors, bleach is excluded as the tests were done long after bleach would have completely dissipated.

It would be interesting to compare the description he gave in the TV interview with his testimony. If really there is such a match it would suggest he was couched about it, but of course there is a possibility he saw some photo in the media.

I'm presuming you meant coached, not couched. I know the word "conspiracy" causes all sorts of consternation around here but there's no other conclusion when I see posts like this. The Italians all conspired together to convict her it seems, coaching witnesses, planting evidence etc. etc. etc. These types of comments only serve to diminish the innocence argument for me.

"If really there is such a match" can also likely mean he's simply telling the truth about what he saw.

That would mean he for some reason decided to not share that information with the police that questioned him, and instead lied to them about seeing Amanda a few times, always in Sollecito's company.

How unusual is it for witnesses to remain quiet and perhaps never come forward? His reasons for not coming forward on his own are unfortunately all too common, he probably just didn't want to get involved.
 
I'm sure there will be people who can show different things to themselves. I spoke for myself.

The truth is something about which there is NO argument.

In math and science there is a methodical method of testing proofs and theories that is widely accepted by members of the scientific community.

The double DNA knife had LCN DNA. That is true because there is no dispute over that fact.
 
I think it would be unusual for a "lead" character to have this happen to her unless it was something like tankgirl or robocop, these things are a series of books and you don't normally put the lead character out of commission. If Raffaele was quoted as SomeAlibi said then of course there should be a quote. And why mention this and not mention the name of the manga so people can judge for themselves?

I just looked up "Blood: The Last Vampire" which you can view online at:

http://manga.animea.net/blood-the-last-vampire-chapter-1-page-1.html

I skimmed through it and it wasn't as macabre as advertised, and I never did find the scene of legs being chopped off the main character, though a handful of pages didn't load and I just skipped on to the next. You'd think that would be a major plot point--the main character being disabled--and would last more than a page, but perhaps not. She was the last 'purebred' vampire or somesuch, so I guess she could have recuperated within a page.

I had trouble following it as it didn't hold my interest, but there was a fair amount of bare female bodies. The only instances of attempted forced sex that I could see were quickly interrupted by the main character administering a butt-kicking. At the end of Chapter 2 there's a scene with the villain in his/her lair with dead girls who look like they've been slashed, and at the end of the third chapter/beginning of the fourth there's a lesbian scene by someone who doesn't know how to draw a tongue: looks like an unpeeled banana.

Going by the movie at least, "Sin City" was worse in my opinion.
 
No it is not an agreed fantasy. Thoughtful's presentation of Quintavalle's story makes complete sense. Quintavalle also described Amanda's clothing pretty well spot on, also her eyes and pallor. He is possibly someone with a great memory, such people do exist, and whatever reason he had to remember her, perhaps attraction, he does remember having seen her.

However, there's actual hard evidence he's mistaken in this case:

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/november042010/amandaknox.php

"Shop owner Marco Quintavalle's testimony on seeing Amanda at his store the morning of Nov 2nd is contradicted by the testimony of Inspector Orestes Volturno. Inspector Volturno's service records show that on Nov 19, 2007 he and another officer showed photos of Amanda and Raffaele to Marco Quintavalle and two employees and explicitly asked if they had been in to buy bleach at a date close to the murder.

Quintavalle said they had been to his store a few times but not on November 2nd. He only came forward almost a year later with a different story. Store employee Ana Marina Chiriboga's testimony backed up that of officer Volturno. No bleach receipts or sales records were ever produced to confirm Quintavalle’s story. [/url]


I'm presuming you meant coached, not couched. I know the word "conspiracy" causes all sorts of consternation around here but there's no other conclusion when I see posts like this. The Italians all conspired together to convict her it seems, coaching witnesses, planting evidence etc. etc. etc. These types of comments only serve to diminish the innocence argument for me.

Where does this idea come from that corruption and CYA amount to 'conspiracy?' Is this a standard assumption in Italy, that no institution can be corrupted, or is it just the police and prosecutors that are given this immunity from skepticism? If politicians or businessmen were caught screwing up and then fudged the books or paid off someone to keep quiet would you call someone who tried to expose it a 'conspiracy theorist?'

Either the police screwed up or Amanda and Raffaele are guilty. Since there's been no actual evidence of them committing this crime and plenty of the police and prosecutors screwing up wholesale in the attempt to implicate them, perhaps you should open your mind to the possibility that a mistake was made and they dug themselves in deeper.
 
Great article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...-obsessed-with-amanda-knoxs-fate-2124415.html
in the weeks that followed the murder and the police's "caso chiuso", the forensic understanding of Meredith's murder was transformed. The DNA and fingerprint evidence at the scene was tied, not to Amanda and Raffaele, but to a troubled young man from the Ivory Coast called Rudy Guede, who had committed several break-ins in previous weeks and who fled Italy on the night of the crime. He was brought back from Germany, where he was on the run, and accused of the crime.

But for whatever reason, the prosecution continued to insist on the guilt of Amanda and Raffaele. The African barman Amanda had named, who had a watertight alibi, was merely removed from the prosecution's equation, and Guede slotted in to his place.

The murder scenario began to take on dimensions of the absurd. Amanda and Raffaele had been lovers for a mere six days. Rudy was all-but unknown to Amanda, totally unknown to Raffaele, and he had no mobile phone. The idea that the three had arranged to be present together at Meredith and Amanda's house made no sense. Then there was the forensic void: how can you participate in a chaotic, bloody murder without leaving a single trace at the crime scene? Guede's fingerprints were all over Meredith and her room. Of Amanda, by contrast, there was no forensic trace of any sort; Raffaele was betrayed by a single speck of DNA which has been hotly contested by the defence ever since it was brought in evidence.

And my favorite part:

"I keep reading about how I belong to a support group called Friends of Amanda, but I don't even know the members."
 
But do you realize testifying against somebody he knew was there, for him would be a self-incrimination. His version won't be more credible, only more complex to build, and if the other two were not there maybe it could stand, theyr being not able to produce a better version than his, but if they were present on the scene of murder, then they would be able to produce a more credible version of the dinamic in which he is guilty.
Blaming the accomplice is always a stupid choice.

Perhaps but being extradited and knowing he was all over that crime scene I'd think his only hope would be to cooperate and try to get his story in first and as 'truthful' as he could make it. His only hope would seem to have been praying the police believed him, and giving them nothing and lying about who else was there doesn't seem to be the place to start. If there was no physical evidence and he hadn't fled the country your theory would make sense, but as I've noted you have to remove the context of being extradited and having bodily fluids and bloody fingerprints all over to make sense of it.
 
However, there's actual hard evidence he's mistaken in this case:

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/november042010/amandaknox.php

"Shop owner Marco Quintavalle's testimony on seeing Amanda at his store the morning of Nov 2nd is contradicted by the testimony of Inspector Orestes Volturno. Inspector Volturno's service records show that on Nov 19, 2007 he and another officer showed photos of Amanda and Raffaele to Marco Quintavalle and two employees and explicitly asked if they had been in to buy bleach at a date close to the murder.

Quintavalle said they had been to his store a few times but not on November 2nd. He only came forward almost a year later with a different story. Store employee Ana Marina Chiriboga's testimony backed up that of officer Volturno. No bleach receipts or sales records were ever produced to confirm Quintavalle’s story."

The motivations states the conflict in Volturno's and Quintavalle's testimonies a bit differently:

Page 84:

This Court deems that the testimony of Quintavalle is reliable. It was discovered that Inspector Volturno did not ask Quintavalle if, on the morning of November 2, he saw Amanda Knox in his shop.

He was asked – so Quintavalle recalled - about purchases made by Raffaele Sollecito. Mr. Quintavalle did not say anything about having seen Amanda Knox on the morning of November 2, 2007 in his [76] shop because he was not questioned about this and because, as indicated by Quintavalle himself, he considered this fact to be insignificant.

It would be helpful to see the transcripts of questions asked and answered of and by both Volturno and Quintavalle.
 
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