Lancet study, alcohol scores as more harmful than heroin and crack

[!Kaggen]

Looks like the earth might not be the center of the universe.

Alcohol is more harmful than heroin or crack, according to a study published in medical journal the Lancet.

The report is co-authored by Professor David Nutt, the former UK chief drugs adviser who was sacked by the government in October 2009.

It ranks 20 drugs on 16 measures of harm to users and to wider society.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

 

[Lord Emsworth]

If I am not mistaken "most harmful" means the wide spread use is factored in.

The modelling exercise concluded that heroin, crack and methylamphetamine, also known as crystal meth, were the most harmful drugs to individuals, but alcohol, heroin and crack cocaine were the most harmful to society.

When the scores for both types of harm were added together, alcohol emerged as the most harmful drug, followed by heroin and crack.

Prof Nutt told the BBC: "Overall, alcohol is the most harmful drug because it's so widely used.

"Crack cocaine is more addictive than alcohol but because alcohol is so widely used there are hundreds of thousands of people who crave alcohol every day, and those people will go to extraordinary lengths to get it."

I hope I am not quoting too much.

 

[!Kaggen]

If I am not mistaken "most harmful" means the wide spread use is factored in.





I hope I am not quoting too much.

No it was not factored into the model as the model looked at the actual overall harm, which includes widespread use. It is interesting from this point of view as a model looking at the average harm could probably reverse the results.

 

[Aepervius]

" More harmful" to individual or society has never been a factor in law policies. Culture and religious bias has always been the main factor. Heck alcohol in absolute is more harmful to the individual and to the society hand down, than say , pot. Alcohol is free to consume for adult, pot is not.

 

[Halfcentaur]

Well, the only harmful effect of heroin is if you accidentally take too much. Emotional health is another issue, but if a person could feasibly have an easily obtainable regular supply of heroin, they wouldn't really have an issue with living an otherwise normal and productive life. What constitutes a "life" is really subjective though.

 

[FattyCatty]

Another voice for alcohol as the most harmful drug, although this is just regarding the individual. Here is an opinion that alcohol is the most harmful drug to the brain, from the transcript of an interview of Dr. Koob by Bill Moyer for PBS. It's an interesting read. Portions of this interview appear in the CLOSE TO HOME series. thirteen.org/closetohome/science/html/koob.html

Moyers: What is the most brain-damaging drug?

Koob: Alcohol. Unlike other drugs, it actually destroys neurons and it destroys not only your brain, but your liver and your pancreas in the process. And the toxic effects it has on many parts on many organs in the body ultimately can result in brain toxicity. There's a syndrome called Korsakoff's psychosis where you get holes in your brain from chronic alcohol use, and it's usually combined with malnutrition, which makes it even more toxic. Alcohol will destroy neurons in your memory areas of your brain, in your hippocampus, and also in your thalamus.

Moyers: Literal holes in the brain?

Koob: Actual holes in the brain.

Dr. Koob is chair of the Committee on the Neurobiology of Addictive Disorders and co-director of the Pearson Center for Alcoholism and Addiction Research at The Scripps Research Institute. www.pearsoncenter.org/george_koob.html

George F. Koob, Ph.D., is a Professor and Chairman of the Committee on the Neurobiology of Addictive Disorders and Director of the Laboratory of Psychopharmacology at The Scripps Research Institute and Adjunct Professor of Psychology and Psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego. Dr. Koob received his Bachelor of Science degree from Pennsylvania State University and his Ph.D. in Behavioral Physiology from The Johns Hopkins University. He began his postdoctoral studies in neurophysiology, neurochemistry, and psychopharmacology at Walter Reed Army Institute of Research. He continued his postdoctoral fellowship with Dr. Susan D. Iversen at the Department of Experimental Psychology and Dr. Leslie Iversen, Medical Research Council Neurochemical Pharmacology Unit at the University of Cambridge, England.

 

[Floyt]

Well, I just found out this week that the worst thing you can do to a mouse hippocampus slice is cleaning the e-phys stage well with ethanol and then don't wait until it's all evaporated before slapping on the brains. Dying neurons sound scary when amplified. So I'll believe the hole thing

 

[The Don]

In follow-up interviews yesterday, they were very clear that if Heroin and Crack Cocaine were as available as alcohol then they would be more harmful.

Then again cigarettes kill half the people who use them. I guess it's how you weight the results

 

[TubbaBlubba]

In follow-up interviews yesterday, they were very clear that if Heroin and Crack Cocaine were as available as alcohol then they would be more harmful.

Then again cigarettes kill half the people who use them. I guess it's how you weight the results

More harmful to the user or to others?

As I understand it this takes alcohol violence etc into account.

 

[Dancing David]

If cocaine was available in more than limited amounts it would definitly be very destructive, in terms of heart damage.

 

[!Kaggen]

If big Macs were free think of all those poor hearts

 

[zooterkin]

I saw David Nutt on TV talking about it yesterday morning (are the interviewers really that stupid, or are they trying to accurately represent their viewers?) and heard him on the radio where he had to deal with a blustering Peter Hitchens ("But you're blurring the distinction between legal and illegal drugs!"). I think his point came across, but that may be because I already knew what it was.

ETA: There's more about it here (including graphs and comments about Peter Hitchens )

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

If cocaine was available in more than limited amounts it would definitly be very destructive, in terms of heart damage.

Except cocaine was not only legal, but very popular too at one point. You'd be surprised how many people you probably heard of, from Freud to Edison to Jules Verne, were using coca wine, for example. Coca Cola happened when prohibition hit, so someone basically figured out that they can replace the wine with a handful of sugar. And plenty of people drank it.

So, I dunno, where is that widespread damage?

 

[Lothian]

Wey hey. Alcohol wins. I'll drink to that. Cheers.

 

[roger]

I think we could turn the debate into a drinking game. A shot every time some mentions children or legality, and snort a line whenever somebody says "slippery slope". Who's with me!

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Every time someone successfully points out a logical fallacy, the loser has to take a shot.

 

[!Kaggen]

Now you know why psychology/psychiatry can't be a science until illegal drugs are legal.

Ok its my turn for the shot

 

[Dancing David]

Except cocaine was not only legal, but very popular too at one point. You'd be surprised how many people you probably heard of, from Freud to Edison to Jules Verne, were using coca wine, for example. Coca Cola happened when prohibition hit, so someone basically figured out that they can replace the wine with a handful of sugar. And plenty of people drank it.

So, I dunno, where is that widespread damage?

Um, wow, I knew that, yet they were not consuming the modern pwoeder form, nor were they smoking crack.

I dunno why you doubt PubMed, did you even look?

It would seem that there is a link between cocaine use and coronary disease, which may be dose related:


Some from PubMed 'cocaine coronary disease'

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20857618
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20804698
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20707251

 

[Dave_46]

<snip>
and heard him on the radio where he had to deal with a blustering Peter Hitchens
<snip>

Peter Hitchens started by saying something about the language of the report being "barely English" (I think I got the Quote right, but if not, that is the sense). My immediate reaction was, he doesn't understand it, so it must be rubbish.

Dave

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Oh, wow, cocaine increases the risk of infarct by about 4... unlike smoking, which increases it by the same amount (actually, 2 to 5 times depending on which study you trust) and is legal.

And smoking has a dozen other bad effects, and causes 400,000 deaths a year in the USA alone. And I mean including such bad effects ranging from the obvious ones like cancer or emphysema to stuff like reducing bone density, so if you're a post-menopause smoking woman, yeah, you may not be among those 400,000 dead, but might just get a fractured hip or pelvis instead.

But yeah, everything has its drawbacks, including a big mac with mayo. But compared to other stuff which is legal and advertised on billboards, well, I'm not particularly convinced it's bad enough to make me glad that my tax money goes into putting crack users in jail.