Cops kill yet another black guy for probably no reason

[Architect]

They didn't know that when the shot him, of course. Flimsy post-rationalisation.

 

[brodski]

They didn't know that when the shot him, of course.

That's true, and I never claimed they did. However it does support their claim that he acted in a violent manner towards them, when challenged with a shout of "armed police".

 

[Uncayimmy]

One new "fact" appears to be that he drove about 100 feet according a first-hand account.

 

[brenn]

Well, the last is just idiotic; a case of following the letter of the law while ignoring the intent. How much car is enough? If there's no engine, can I sit in there drunk? How about just a van seat on my lawn, does that count?

Much law is idiotic...such is the inevitable result of democracy.

 

[brenn]

What exactly is uncivilized about the Tennessee v. Garner decision? Or is this just a cheap excuse for a slur?

It may be uncivilized for an American court to put limits on the power to shoot fleeing felons that we inherited when we adopted British law in the 18th century.

 

[Belz...]

Much law is idiotic...such is the inevitable result of democracy.

I don't know. I'm not sure laws in autocraties are much smarter.

 

[brenn]

I don't know. I'm not sure laws in autocraties are much smarter.

They could be much better or much worse, depending on the leadership. In a democracy, the lowest common denominator inevitably governs. Even worse, the denominator seems to be getting lower.

 

[Belz...]

In a democracy, the lowest common denominator inevitably governs.

How do you figure that ? Considering the quality of life has improved significantly under democracy, I would instead propose that laws today are much smarter than those of autocraties.

 

[brenn]

How do you figure that ? Considering the quality of life has improved significantly under democracy, I would instead propose that laws today are much smarter than those of autocraties.

I'd say the quality of life has improved under progressing technology. Government? Well, you're in the UK, right? If you think government is improving life, you may not be a skeptic.

 

[Emet]

I'd say the quality of life has improved under progressing technology. Government? Well, you're in the UK, right? If you think government is improving life, you may not be a skeptic.

What has the government done to allow the quality of life to deteriorate?
(if that's your premise)

 

[Belz...]

I'd say the quality of life has improved under progressing technology.

That has certainly helped. It's my understanding that technology improves better under the impetus of freer markets... gee, that reminds me of democratic systems!

Government? Well, you're in the UK, right? If you think government is improving life, you may not be a skeptic.

Who said anything about me living in the UK ? And who said anything about the government improving life or not ?

 

[WildCat]

Well, the last is just idiotic; a case of following the letter of the law while ignoring the intent. How much car is enough? If there's no engine, can I sit in there drunk? How about just a van seat on my lawn, does that count?

They're all idiotic, it only gives people incentive to try to drive home rather than get caught passed out drunk in the car.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Even with all of those circumstances, you are not acknowledging the fact that 50 cops were on the scene. Just based on that, it's pretty safe to assume that the scene was in chaos before they even knocked on the kid's window. Considering the kid's past, the fact that he is not a trouble maker, he's probably not used to being in situations involving police. It's just a possibility, albeit, a very likely possibility the whole situation put the kid in panic mode. He wasn't out to run down police officers but the police officers are not in the business of mind reading. Tension was already running high because of the call to which they were originally responding. Now they have a kid, who to them, is so bent on fleeing the scene, that he is willing to run down officers in the process. From their perspective, it's considered assault with a deadly weapon and are considered justified to fire upon the driver.

I don't know when all those cops arrived or how far away the commotion was to the car. Surely more came once shots were fired.

But I'm not saying I know if one cop shot and the others read the scene from there, or, if several of the cops exaggerated the danger in their reports after the shooting. I don't see how one determines that at this point. I'm saying the cop should not have been in front of the car, and I see no reliable evidence the kid was fleeing the scene and running cops over. And I'm saying the evidence favors the kid was doing what the passenger said, moving out of the fire lane.

Feel free to conclude first, then wait for the story to unfold but it is clouding your judgement. ...

Right, only those of us in the thread who view the likely story here was overreacting cops are drawing conclusions. Those in the thread who view the likely story as well disciplined, following protocol cops, killing a kid in self defense are not drawing any premature conclusions.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

One new "fact" appears to be that he drove about 100 feet according a first-hand account.

Or the car continued to roll after the driver was shot.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Why are you assuming he was going forward? If he was parked perpendicular to the curb, or parallel parked with an obstruction (such as another car) in front of him, he would have had to back up to get out, while turning the wheel. If the cop is standing at the driver's window, and the driver backs up with the wheels turned to the right, the cop could very easily get hit by the miror and end up on the hood,

Forward or backward, the mirror hits you you don't end up on the hood. You could get knocked down or if your clothes were caught, dragged along. It's an unlikely story you could be knocked on to the hood unless you were in front of the car.

And by the way, if you were on the hood and the car was moving backward, you would not shoot through the windshield because the car was going to run you over. You would get off the car before it sped up.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Why are you making the assumption the police got in his way?

Because that's the only way to end up on the hood.

Is it not just as likely the black kid aimed for the police?

3rd year in college, not at the bar, no drugs or alcohol in the car.

You know what happens when you assume?

Like assuming a black kid must have tried to flee, for no reason, and run over cops in a panic?

I used the young mans race as you seem to think it was a factor in his tragic death!

Statistics support the conclusion it played a part. Individually it may or may not have.

I doubt police had time to worry about the race of this young man....these things are usually a split second thing!

I'd bet you the bar brawl involved blacks because socially, it's more common for bar crowds to be racially homogenous.

 

[NYCEMT86]

Well this is interesting (bolding mine)

THORNWOOD — Pace University football player Danroy “D.J.” Henry was drunk, with a 0.13 percent blood-alcohol level, when he was shot dead by police while driving from a bar early Sunday, a law enforcement official told The Journal News today.

A couple of students who were with the 20-year-old that night said he had just left Finnegan’s Grill, was the designated driver at the time, and had not been drinking. A lawyer for the Henry family also said he was sober.

Article

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That evidence, if it turns out to be true since it was leaked and not official, does add evidence to the situation.

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

Well this is interesting (bolding mine)

That site also posted an article on Sunday 10/17
http://www.lohud.com/article/201010170421

Police approached Henry's vehicle, which was parked in a fire lane. When an officer knocked on the car window, Henry sped off, according to a Mount Pleasant news release.
A Pleasantville officer tried stopping the vehicle, but Henry accelerated into him, hitting him, and the officer ended up on the hood of the car, police said.
As the vehicle passed by, a Mount Pleasant officer attempted to pull the Pleasantville officer off the hood, but was grazed by the car.
While clinging to the hood as the car continued to accelerate, the Pleasantville officer shot at Henry, the release said, apparently through the windshield.
The vehicle kept heading down the fire lane, moving directly toward another Mount Pleasant officer, who also fired at the vehicle, which crashed into a Mount Pleasant police cruiser and came to a stop about 60 feet from where it started.

So according to this account the officer who wound up on the hood was not the same one who was struck by the mirror.

Samantha DeRosa, 19, a Pace sophomore from Poughkeepsie, said she witnessed the incident and disputed the police version.
She said a large crowd of students was spilling out of the bar as the disc jockey warned them to leave because police were coming to break up a large fight outside. During those frenzied moments, Henry was driving around and headed toward a police officer standing in the middle of the road. He hit his brakes, but struck the officer and then kept driving, she said.
"We don't know why he kept driving, but he did," she said.
In view of dozens of Pace students, DeRosa said, the officers opened fire on Henry's vehicle, firing about five shots

Which part of the police version is she disputing?

 

[tyr_13]

Which part of the police version is she disputing?

That it happened in the fire lane.

EDIT: For one, the number of officers struck for another.