Graphic Information System - GIS and Mapping

[RobRoy]

In another thread, I mentioned that I’m in marketing for a GIS company and Luciana asked me to open this thread for discussion about it.

Luciana’s question started with that GIS can do for her particular city, so I’ll start with a pretty broad response and then narrow from there:

Mapping technology for city management is actually a big sector, as mapping can assist with civil engineering, economic development, elections/redistricting, land administration, public works, surveying, and urban/regional planning. There are larger areas that local government might also touch upon, such as education, health and human services, transportation, public safety, utilities/communications, and natural resource management.

Luciana, is there something particular you’d like me to focus on and address?

There are a number of major players out in the world right now, Claritas, Esri, GE Smallworld, Google, Oracle, Intergraph, etc. Some of them actually work together on particular elements. There are also some minor players who provide niche services that integrate with the bigger games: Cityworks, Azteca, Booz Allen Hamilton, etc.

It's pretty impressive what they can do, especially if you have enough money, and it seems there isn't an area or industry that isn't touched by GIS these days.

 

[Luciana]

Thanks, RobRoy!

In Rio, I believe we use GIS mostly for urban planning, transportation and public works (I don't think you could even start dealing with those three without GIS!).

Economic development? Public safety? Could you expand on those?

I'd be more interested on how GIS could assist a mayor, that is, considering that he needs the big view - though I understand this is impossible without a number of specific smaller parts. He's a guy who likes maps, and I have seen unexpected results because of it (he "saw" and took in consideration things that experts didn't, simply because he had a map in front of him, and thus outsmarting very knowledgeable people). So the more elements he sees in a map, the better his decisions will be.

btw, does anyone else in the forum work with GIS? (I find it fascinating. The geek inside me jumps up and down when I see GIS. Truly useful and, well, beautiful).

 

[Hokulele]

I work for a company that creates hardware and software for surveying/data collection, including GIS data, and I do presentations on field techniques specifically for survey-grade GIS data collection. I would be happy to answer any questions as well.

 

[RobRoy]

Thanks, RobRoy!

No worries. My experiences in marketing have covered a wide range of industries, so I’m happy to share what little my gypsy resume has gleaned.

In Rio, I believe we use GIS mostly for urban planning, transportation and public works (I don't think you could even start dealing with those three without GIS!).

Knowing what I know about Rio, I’d agree completely. There was little thought or planning to the city initially, which is true of a lot of cities. It simply grew over the years into something of a mess. A beautiful, colorful, exotic mess, but from a logistics point of view, a nightmare of a mess.

Economic development? Public safety? Could you expand on those?

Of course.

Economic Development
Governments use GIS tools to attract, grow and retain businesses. With the right sets of data, which can come either in-house (from your city government) or a third-party source, which tracks such information, you can accurately pick areas within the city for investment. For example, if you start tracking consumer-spending by sector, and see that certain areas of the city are attracting lots of people, but the roads in that area are poor, then you can effective plan and budget for improvements there. Similarly, if you’re looking to rehabilitate a particular region of the city, you’ll want to know the demographics and median income for that area, then you can start pitching to particular businesses, provide them incentives for opening shop, etc.

Public Safety
This actually covers a very wide range of segments:

* Computer-Aided Dispatch
* Emergency/Disaster Management
* Fire, Rescue, and EMS
* Homeland Security
* Law Enforcement
* Wildland Fire Management​

When GIS is linked to a central command center (or several, depending on the need), and linked to mobile field devices, then they can link up and quickly, accurately and effectively handle situations as they arise.

I'd be more interested on how GIS could assist a mayor, that is, considering that he needs the big view - though I understand this is impossible without a number of specific smaller parts. He's a guy who likes maps, and I have seen unexpected results because of it (he "saw" and took in consideration things that experts didn't, simply because he had a map in front of him, and thus outsmarting very knowledgeable people). So the more elements he sees in a map, the better his decisions will be.

This would depend on exactly what he was looking for, but it’s all a matter of matching data with the maps, which then allows you to make better-informed decisions.

 

[Luciana]

Thanks, Hokulele.

I'd like to know how large cities use GIS, especially the most innovative and recent usages.

For example, regarding public safety, we have a new plan still under wraps. City government is not responsible for safety (in Brazil, the state is, not the municipalities), but we can tackle the issue in the sidelines, and our plan is geographically based. Everybody knows that crimes come in clusters, and that's how we plan to deal with this. So we'd like to know what's state of art in that area, or of any similar usage.

Rio is currently shopping for innovations in city management, and I believe GIS must play a large role in this.

 

[Luciana]

Economic Development
Governments use GIS tools to attract, grow and retain businesses. With the right sets of data, which can come either in-house (from your city government) or a third-party source, which tracks such information, you can accurately pick areas within the city for investment. For example, if you start tracking consumer-spending by sector, and see that certain areas of the city are attracting lots of people, but the roads in that area are poor, then you can effective plan and budget for improvements there. Similarly, if you’re looking to rehabilitate a particular region of the city, you’ll want to know the demographics and median income for that area, then you can start pitching to particular businesses, provide them incentives for opening shop, etc.

Public Safety
This actually covers a very wide range of segments:

* Computer-Aided Dispatch
* Emergency/Disaster Management
* Fire, Rescue, and EMS
* Homeland Security
* Law Enforcement
* Wildland Fire Management​

When GIS is linked to a central command center (or several, depending on the need), and linked to mobile field devices, then they can link up and quickly, accurately and effectively handle situations as they arise.

This would depend on exactly what he was looking for, but it’s all a matter of matching data with the maps, which then allows you to make better-informed decisions.

Lots to think about. I'll have more questions for you tomorrow (work with the mayor and graduate school. What was I thinking?!?)

 

[RobRoy]

Thanks, Hokulele.

I'd like to know how large cities use GIS, especially the most innovative and recent usages.[/quotes]

Yikes! Way too much to go into as a general response. In the US, almost every major city has a GIS department linked into a GIS database or three, and that they are all trying to figure out how to use that information and the mapping technology to the greatest advantage. Some departments didn’t even know they were tracking GIS data, so there are disparate, legacy systems that need to talk to each other.

For example, regarding public safety, we have a new plan still under wraps. City government is not responsible for safety (in Brazil, the state is, not the municipalities), but we can tackle the issue in the sidelines, and our plan is geographically based. Everybody knows that crimes come in clusters, and that's how we plan to deal with this. So we'd like to know what's state of art in that area, or of any similar usage.

You definitely want to look into a centralized dispatch system, which can link your police, fire, and emergency/disaster responders together.

There’s also a lot going on right now with mobile devices that pinpoint things like gang activity, including crimes, tagging, etc. There’s also some discussion about tracking cell phone activity in the vicinity/time of a crime.

Rio is currently shopping for innovations in city management, and I believe GIS must play a large role in this.

I’d agree. I’m amazed by just how much of an impact GIS does and can have. Price is always an issue, but overall it seems that whatever you pay to put a system into place will effectively pay for itself many times over.

 

[Hokulele]

Thanks, Hokulele.

I'd like to know how large cities use GIS, especially the most innovative and recent usages.

As RobRoy mentioned, that is a huge topic and would be difficult to cover in a single forum post. From what I have seen, the most innovative uses of GIS involve tracking multiple streams of data to see correlations between activities, even streams one wouldn't normally consider. For example, correlating weather data with parking violations and using long-term weather forecasts to help schedule and deploy parking enforcement personnel. In one city, this actually created a rise in revenue from parking citations. Granted, you would have to balance the rise in revenue with the rise in unhappy illegal parkers, but there you have it.

For example, regarding public safety, we have a new plan still under wraps. City government is not responsible for safety (in Brazil, the state is, not the municipalities), but we can tackle the issue in the sidelines, and our plan is geographically based. Everybody knows that crimes come in clusters, and that's how we plan to deal with this. So we'd like to know what's state of art in that area, or of any similar usage.

Rio is currently shopping for innovations in city management, and I believe GIS must play a large role in this.

Just try not to get too big too fast. One of the major issues in implementing a new GIS system is making sure the underlying data is valid. Old, out-of-date databases can kill the actual utility of the maps. If fire protection sees a fire hydrant in the GIS that was removed or moved months ago, this is a problem.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Lots to think about. I'll have more questions for you tomorrow (work with the mayor and graduate school. What was I thinking?!?)

When I was a civil engineer back in the 90's we were just getting into using GIS and it was amazing. Tasks that previously took hundreds of man-hours were reduced to tens of man hours (and tens of thousands of dollars in hardware and software). If the computers hadn't been so slow and the data handling so cumbersome I probably would have stayed in that field instead of going to law school.

I kept up with some of the developments as my brother worked in the field until recently. He was doing things on his laptop in seconds that we needed a unix workstation and a bit of patience to do.

I'm not familiar with all of the current providers, but ESRI has a really good newsletter that I have been getting about every quarter for the last decade or so. ArcNews is the name, if I remember correctly. It is a good resource for seeing what other people are doing with their software and their partners. Search a bit and I bet they'll send you and your mayor copies for free.

We are pattern seeking animals and seeing data laid out in context is very helpful to making decisions on both a big picture and micro-managment scale. I hope you are able to help your city with this technology.

 

[Highly Selassie]

Does anyone have tips on how to break into the GIS field? I have a Bachelor's degree in geography and I used some GIS software in my courses but everyone wants to see at least two years of paid experience, even for "entry level" positions. I've been thinking of striking out on my own and doing some projects integrating public GIS data with the web but it's a lot of work for a goal that might be unrealistic.

 

[RobRoy]

Does anyone have tips on how to break into the GIS field? I have a Bachelor's degree in geography and I used some GIS software in my courses but everyone wants to see at least two years of paid experience, even for "entry level" positions. I've been thinking of striking out on my own and doing some projects integrating public GIS data with the web but it's a lot of work for a goal that might be unrealistic.

Have you considered a degree in GIS?

I'm a marketer, so my degree isn't tech-related. Otherwise, I couldn't break into a new field if my life depended on it.

When the zombies come, my best skill will be to toss my laptop and run.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Have you considered a degree in GIS?

That's how my brother got into it: masters degree. Got his job before his degree based on some projects he was doing as a part of his degree program. Which reminds me that you could work on some projects for local non-profits and see if that leads to something.

My route was less formal: needed to get something done and this was the best tool, so I learned how to use it. I don't recommend this approach.

I'm a marketer, so my degree isn't tech-related. Otherwise, I couldn't break into a new field if my life depended on it.

When the zombies come, my best skill will be to toss my laptop and run.

Remember to put a lot of spin on it, throw it like a frisbee, not a baseball.

 

[RobRoy]

That's how my brother got into it: masters degree. Got his job before his degree based on some projects he was doing as a part of his degree program. Which reminds me that you could work on some projects for local non-profits and see if that leads to something.

My route was less formal: needed to get something done and this was the best tool, so I learned how to use it. I don't recommend this approach.

Seems like the latter is how it goes right now. People fall into the career because it had something to do with their main job. As the need/desire for GIS increased, then so did their role as a GIS tech.

Remember to put a lot of spin on it, throw it like a frisbee, not a baseball.

Important safety tip. Thanks!

 

[JSFolk]

Interesting that this thread has come up. I'm a drafting coordinator for an energy company up here in Calgary, but (as happens) have no certification, diploma, etc to do what I do. I've taken a few AutoCAD classes to try to get at least SOME bit of paper to be able to transfer back to the US at some point, but have also been eying GIS as a really neat field. I've not done any "real" GIS work, just mapped some our facilities to Google Earth using spreadsheets... that sort of thing.

The local tech school has some continuing education courses in GIS (This is the basic
http://sait.ca/pages/cometosait/continuingeducation/gis/gisbasicscertificate.shtml ) Would these courses help me do anything in the GIS field, or would it be a waste of time to have anything less than a Bachelor's degree?

Thanks!

 

[Hokulele]

Does anyone have tips on how to break into the GIS field? I have a Bachelor's degree in geography and I used some GIS software in my courses but everyone wants to see at least two years of paid experience, even for "entry level" positions. I've been thinking of striking out on my own and doing some projects integrating public GIS data with the web but it's a lot of work for a goal that might be unrealistic.

Make sure you highlight any cartography classes/experience you have had, as the GIS field has traditionally had a lot of people with database or IT experience, but fewer with geography/mapping/cartography/surveying experience. This is rapidly changing, with the high demand for people with relevant training. As others mentioned, a master's in GIS would certainly help, particularly if you wanted to get into the public sector, but if you want a job now, you may want to attend one of the larger conferences and check the job boards there, as well as network with people in the field. In addition, many of the on-line forums and publications have job listings.

You might also want to look at one of the more "specialty" areas when it comes to GIS. Data acquisition is an important, and often overlooked, aspect of GIS. Telecommunications and the energy industry are also excellent areas of opportunity for someone with your background.

 

[Hokulele]

The local tech school has some continuing education courses in GIS (This is the basic
http://sait.ca/pages/cometosait/continuingeducation/gis/gisbasicscertificate.shtml ) Would these courses help me do anything in the GIS field, or would it be a waste of time to have anything less than a Bachelor's degree?

Thanks!

It would help, but I would highlight your experience outside the traditional GIS classes, as that is your competitive edge over recent graduates from GIS programs. Since you are already a drafting coordinator with AutoCAD experience, you may want to use that as a springboard for integrating CAD data (as-builts and the like) with GIS data (facility management systems and the like). I recently did a series of technical presentations with a representative from one of the largest GIS software manufacturers where we discussed the realities of integrating design/construction with GIS.

 

[RobRoy]

The local tech school has some continuing education courses in GIS (This is the basic
http://sait.ca/pages/cometosait/continuingeducation/gis/gisbasicscertificate.shtml ) Would these courses help me do anything in the GIS field, or would it be a waste of time to have anything less than a Bachelor's degree?

Thanks!

Ok, keeping in mind my actual position with a GIS firm, after looking over these courses, I don’t think it would be a waste of time, but it all depends on how hardcore GIS you want to go. If it’s something you want to actually do as a career shift, then I would suggest a full degree. However, the courses offered appear to be a pretty decent start and hit the major highlights: an overview of GIS, an understanding of cartography, dealing with remote data points, and understanding a GIS database. These seem (to me at least) to be the core elements of becoming a GIS technician. Experience is the real key here.

ETA: I see Hokulele beat me to the punch, and looks like we're essentially on the same page. Her information is more functional/technical than mine.

 

[Delvo]

It still feels a bit odd to me whenever I'm reminded that GIS is also used for urban functions now. I've used it on the job, but only in ecological research and forest management. Cities were just the boring little "we don't really care what's in there" spots on our maps... sometimes literally just referred to as "black stuff" among those of us who used GIS.

 

[JSFolk]

Thanks to both of you for your replies. I'm thinking along the lines of a career shift, but am intimidated by the thought of leaving my (lucrative) position and going to school full time... which are pretty much the defining characteristics of the Continuing Ed student.

 

[RobRoy]

Thanks to both of you for your replies. I'm thinking along the lines of a career shift, but am intimidated by the thought of leaving my (lucrative) position and going to school full time... which are pretty much the defining characteristics of the Continuing Ed student.

Is it possible your current job would pay for your education? I know many companies offer education reimbursement if the courses are related to your current job. It would take longer, but you'd have the best of both worlds.