Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris C]

Chris C: "The only thing that is speculated about is why/how it was damaged."

Wasn't there a detailed report on this? If so, then I would suggest that the only speculation is what was on it.

As far as I know, the defence has made no noises regarding files on the computer that would prove her innocence.

My why/how was in reference to conspiracy theories. Thats all speculation.

 

[RoseMontague]

Chris C: "The only thing that is speculated about is why/how it was damaged."

Wasn't there a detailed report on this? If so, then I would suggest that the only speculation is what was on it.

As far as I know, the defence has made no noises regarding files on the computer that would prove her innocence.

The report did not determine the cause of damage and the appeal is asking it to be looked into once again.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I thought that had to do with Halloween night and Meredith declined because she already had plans.

Yes. There were 3 brief messages, two from Amanda and one response from Meredith, early on the evening of October 31.

 

[Justinian2]

What do people think of the new book defined at?

http://www.sciencespheres.com/

I am in accord with Steve Moore, Candace, Waterbury, Hendry and the first 350 pages of the Massei report (up to the conclusion)

I also like http://www.perugiamurderfile.com/ (not .org) which asks that AK and RS be freed.

I am in disagreement with the conclusion of the Massei report, the verdict of the court, the methods of the Italian police, and all of the guilters I've communicated with.

 

[RWVBWL]

Maybe this hasn't been explained in detail to you. So I'll step in for the posters here on this thread. JREF monitors their posts. When people in posts start to stray away from forum rules they place that post under moderated status. When you get personal with a poster here, and Solange does post here, you are getting personal with that poster. By spouting this nonsense you and now me, are in violation of forum rules.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25744
You are in violation of:
0. Be civil and polite.
11. You will not deliberately attempt to derail threads or start threads in the wrong section.
12. “Address the argument, not the arguer." Having your opinion, claim or argument challenged, doubted or dismissed is not attacking the arguer.

And I'm in violation of this for having to quote you.

If you want to rant and rave about Solange, someone here might be able to suggest a different forum to talk about that particular person. I'm sure I'm a member there also.

Nice posting Chris C!
Now that I've said that, let's get back on track here...

Chris C, I believe that you might be onto something with regards to this posting:

When I look at the pic you posted I noticed something for the first time. So I did a crude circling of it. Is that blood in the circle? Because if it is it would line up perfectly with Guede's middle toe, which so happens to also be longer than his big toe.

When I looked at Piktor's recent comparison on PMF, on this page:
http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=63913
I too noticed that Rudy Guede's 2nd toe is longer than his big toe, whereas Raffaele Sollicito's footprint shows his 2nd toe considerably shorter...

Excellant find, Chris C!
Please post that image again...
Thanks, RWVBWL

 

[LondonJohn]

Says the woman whose own husband forgot her Birthday...........

 

[LondonJohn]

Nice posting Chris C!
Now that I've said that, let's get back on track here...

Chris C, I believe that you might be onto something with regards to this posting:


When I looked at Piktor's recent comparison on PMF, on this page:
http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=63913
I too noticed that Rudy Guede's 2nd toe is longer than his big toe, whereas Raffaele Sollicito's footprint shows his 2nd toe considerably shorter...

Excellant find, Chris C!
Please post that image again...
Thanks, RWVBWL

That additional blood area in the top right of the general big toe area is a real problem, so far as linking conclusively to Sollecito goes. It's abundantly clear that Sollecito's reference big toe (or any of his other toes) do not map to that particular area. Whereas it's in the vicinity of where Guede's longer-than-average second toe would fall.

 

[katy_did]

Can you please quote these "friendly and inviting" texts, I've never seen their content myself.

The most detailed reference I've seen is from Amanda's court testimony:

LG: You sent her a text message on that evening, to Meredith?

AK: Certainly. I asked her if she wanted to meet me, and I think she answered that she was going with the girls.

GCM: Excuse me, when you say "the girls", you are referring to...

AK: The English girls. That group.

GCM: Meredith's English friends?

LG: Yes. But the message that Meredith sent you on October 31 2007, at 19:04, "yes I have a party, but I have to go to a friend's house for dinner--"

AK: Oh, right.

LG: "what's your program? x" What does "x" mean? A kiss?

AK: Yes, a kiss. "x" is a kiss.

LG: Do you remember this message?

AK: Yes, yes. In fact the day after Halloween, the 1st of November, she was telling me about it when she woke up. She explained to me that the Halloween party that they--there was this--they had made a kind of pink fruit juice, and a hand made of ice that they put inside it. She thought that was really ghostly.

LG: So, to this text message of 19:04, you answered with another, at 20:03 still on October 31, saying "I'm going to Le Chic for a bit, and afterwards who knows, maybe we'll see each other. Call me. What are you doing this evening? Do you want to meet? Do you have a costume?"

AK: Yes.

 

[RoseMontague]

What do people think of the new book defined at?

http://www.sciencespheres.com/

I am in accord with Steve Moore, Candace, Waterbury, Hendry and the first 350 pages of the Massei report (up to the conclusion)

I also like http://www.perugiamurderfile.com/ (not .org) which asks that AK and RS be freed.

I am in disagreement with the conclusion of the Massei report, the verdict of the court, the methods of the Italian police, and all of the guilters I've communicated with.

I think his book will be terrific based on the first 2 excerpts I have seen. Not only does he make sense, I like his writing style and his use of literary allusions.

The Massei report contains a lot of testimony on the evidence and information on the events in the case. Whenever it strays into doing more than this limited narrative function, it fails miserably.

 

[LondonJohn]

The most detailed reference I've seen is from Amanda's court testimony:

Yes, it certainly sounds like the intense feelings of bitterness and jealousy from Amanda towards Meredith were barely suppressed in these text messages.....

 

[Justinian2]

I think his book will be terrific based on the first 2 excerpts I have seen. Not only does he make sense, I like his writing style and his use of literary allusions.

The Massei report contains a lot of testimony on the evidence and information on the events in the case. Whenever it strays into doing more than this limited narrative function, it fails miserably.

I think his book is explosive. Talking about police and court misconduct is explosive. Talking about the innocence of AK and RS is explosive. Put the two together and you have nitroglycern.

 

[Chris C]

Please post that image again...
Thanks, RWVBWL

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/footprint.html
Thats where that pic originated from. You will notice that the defense teams, guede footprint overlay, even shows his toe over the red spot.

Now it could just be the crimescope causing the spot for some innocent reason and thats probably the case. I was just wondering if it was ever checked for blood or dna.

 

[LondonJohn]

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/footprint.html
Thats where that pic originated from. You will notice that the defense teams, guede footprint overlay, even shows his toe over the red spot.

Now it could just be the crimescope causing the spot for some innocent reason and thats probably the case. I was just wondering if it was ever checked for blood or dna.

It simply seems more and more obvious to me that the entire attempt to conclusively match the bath mat print to the reference print of Sollecito was based on ridiculously bad science. As I've said before, I'd actually say the same thing with regard to trying to match the print conclusively to Guede. But, as I've also said, I think it tends to match Guede's foot more than Sollecito's.

But the main point (in my view) is that this evidence should never, ever have been accepted by a court as any kind of proof positive that Sollecito placed his blood/water-covered foot onto that bath mat. Oh, and the fact that Rinaldi got one of his more important measurements wrong by a factor of over 20% further indicates just what a stellar "expert" he is.

 

[Chris C]

It simply seems more and more obvious to me that the entire attempt to conclusively match the bath mat print to the reference print of Sollecito was based on ridiculously bad science. As I've said before, I'd actually say the same thing with regard to trying to match the print conclusively to Guede. But, as I've also said, I think it tends to match Guede's foot more than Sollecito's.

But the main point (in my view) is that this evidence should never, ever have been accepted by a court as any kind of proof positive that Sollecito placed his blood/water-covered foot onto that bath mat. Oh, and the fact that Rinaldi got one of his more important measurements wrong by a factor of over 20% further indicates just what a stellar "expert" he is.

I agree 100%. I dont think it proves its Guede's either. I as just wondering how much of that mat was tested for dna.

 

[RWVBWL]

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/footprint.html
Thats where that pic originated from. You will notice that the defense teams, guede footprint overlay, even shows his toe over the red spot.

Now it could just be the crimescope causing the spot for some innocent reason and thats probably the case. I was just wondering if it was ever checked for blood or dna.

Hi Chris C,
Thanks for the link.
Can you post the image that you had done earlier where the circle was drawn around what appears to be the 2nd toe?
That is the 1 photograph I would luv to see some debate about, especially if Piktor returns, for I am curious to see what he or she thinks of it...
Thanks, RWVBWL

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Should the hard disk be released

Chris C: "The only thing that is speculated about is why/how it was damaged."

Wasn't there a detailed report on this? If so, then I would suggest that the only speculation is what was on it.

As far as I know, the defence has made no noises regarding files on the computer that would prove her innocence.

colonelhall,

I hope you did not strain yourself moving the goalposts that far. Your speculation about the existence of a detailed report is noted. I only hope that it is more detailed than the reports about the DNA profiling. No one can know with 100% certainty what is on the hard disk with its being examined. However, we do know that ILE has it, that the defense would like to recover the data if possible, and ILE has refused. Do you think that the disk should be given to Toshiba for the purpose of recovering the data? You are the third commenter I have asked.

The contents of the hard disk are unlikely to prove innocence. However, the defense has made clear that they would counter the impression that Amanda and Meredith did hot give along. This whole conversation has a familiar feel. I wrote a post called "Toasted Toshiba and a Halloween Hello" some time ago on the same subject (5111).

 

[colonelhall]

Halides1 I am a colonel. If I want goal posts moved, I have men to do it.

I have always considered the damaged computers a distraction. However, the way that you present the case, I see no harm in a further examination. If the prosecution has refused, I would like to know why.

However, as you say "The contents of the hard disk are unlikely to prove innocence." It all seems pointless to me. The DNA, the footprints, the lack of albis, the lies. These are things that need to be addressed, surely.

 

[Withnail1969]

It simply seems more and more obvious to me that the entire attempt to conclusively match the bath mat print to the reference print of Sollecito was based on ridiculously bad science. As I've said before, I'd actually say the same thing with regard to trying to match the print conclusively to Guede. But, as I've also said, I think it tends to match Guede's foot more than Sollecito's.

But the main point (in my view) is that this evidence should never, ever have been accepted by a court as any kind of proof positive that Sollecito placed his blood/water-covered foot onto that bath mat. Oh, and the fact that Rinaldi got one of his more important measurements wrong by a factor of over 20% further indicates just what a stellar "expert" he is.

Naturally. Why would Sollecito track his blood-soaked naked footprints from the murder-room to the bathroom, then stand on the bathmat. Why would you stand on the mat during the cleanup, knowing that it's going to cause you major problems later? And if you did do it, why wouldn't you clean it up?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Halides1 I am a colonel. If I want goal posts moved, I have men to do it.

I have always considered the damaged computers a distraction. However, the way that you present the case, I see no harm in a further examination. If the prosecution has refused, I would like to know why.

However, as you say "The contents of the hard disk are unlikely to prove innocence." It all seems pointless to me. The DNA, the footprints, the lack of albis, the lies. These are things that need to be addressed, surely.

colonelhall,

Glad to hear it. I am still nursing my rotator cuff injury.

A lawyer told me that an alibi is just an account of where one was (this is a paraphrase). I am not sure what you mean by the lack of an alibi. Amanda said that she was at Sollecito's flat.

 

[RoseMontague]

From Raffaele's appeal page 28 (Google translation)

However, it was not possible to do this work because
inexplicably, the electronic cards of all three hard drives were
damaged so as to prevent data mining.
In this regard, the GIP has given an assignment to the expert Massimo Bernaschi estraesse that the data in computer memories and seized retrieve data in its hard drive, ensuring the blockage
spoke on the PC.
Outcome of the report and evidence of the incident, the causes of corruption have not been positively identified, was not clear if and when the block of the computer occurred, or whether the same is due to a single factor.
Accordingly, it is absolutely necessary to a more comprehensive discussion the circumstances which gave rise to the block on the hard disk notebooks seized.
He wonders, therefore, that task is given to an expert to verify
their cause / damage to computer and Asus, Apple and Toshiba, to respectively owned by Raffaele Sollecito, Amanda Knox and Meredith Kercher, and its hard drive.

It remains a mystery and the defense has requested they be sent to the manufacturers for testing and possible recovery of data.