Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[piktor]

Katy_did,

I agree, but kudos to Piktor for making the attempt. The 99 mm measurement looks particularly suspect. Also, Piktor positioned the purple outline of Guede's foot more to the right than I would have done.

halides1, thank you for your kind words.

If I wanted to "play around" with the images, I could have. I used photos as presented on the internet.

I used as guidance the green dots that intersect the horizontal and vertical arrows on the big toes and forefeet of Sollecito and Guede.

Each one can draw their own conclusions. I am not an expert on footprint measurements, so I used a neutral reference point for both footprints.

The Perugia experts discarded Guede and found Sollecito "compatible".

The 99mm measurement does indeed look "funny", because it is Sollecito's width (Guede's is 96mm.), also, Guede's big toe fits the bathmat measurement height but is exactly Sollecito's wide measurement.

My conclusion is Guede's sample footprint was made wide through computer manipulation, either intentional or accidental. Or the bathmat photo was the one that became distorted, whichever. I did not make Guede's sample footprint wider, shorter, narrower or change it in any way at all.

The top outlines showing the "purple" outline on black background show the two foot shapes are not similar at all.

The right edge Halides mentions has a sweep that matches Sollecito's. If I had moved Guede's right outline more to the left neither of the green dots would coincide with Guede's markers and the right downward sweep on the bathmat would look even more like Sollecito's.

I will move Guede's outline as Halides suggests and present it.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Strongly disagree.

Given that there is no way to establish a definitive inventory of Knox's clothing, before and after the murder, your proposition "nobody can remember a piece of clothing or footwear that they'd seen Knox wearing previously that was no longer accounted for" is completely irrelevant.

Perhaps if an unusually noteworthy item of clothing (e.g. the yellow dress she wore when pictured behind the machine gun) were to have gone missing, that might be noteworthy. Otherwise, this is a completely pointless line of discussion.

It is relevant because Filomena told the police what Amanda was wearing on the day of the murder, and the police claimed that this clothing was missing. The "missing sweatshirt" in fact became part of the dossier of evidence against Amanda that was reviewed by the Italian Supreme Court, as I have posted above. But then, in March 2008, they went back to the cottage and there was Amanda's sweatshirt and the rest of her clothing, strewn across her bed in plain sight, left there when she showered and changed into clean clothing, exactly as she said.

Here's a picture of the "missing sweatshirt," taken by police on Nov. 2, 2007:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/clothing_on_amandas_bed.jpg

 

[christianahannah]

It is relevant because Filomena told the police what Amanda was wearing on the day of the murder, and the police claimed that this clothing was missing. The "missing sweatshirt" in fact became part of the dossier of evidence against Amanda that was reviewed by the Italian Supreme Court, as I have posted above. But then, in March 2008, they went back to the cottage and there was Amanda's sweatshirt and the rest of her clothing, strewn across her bed in plain sight, left there when she showered and changed into clean clothing, exactly as she said.

Here's a picture of the "missing sweatshirt," taken by police on Nov. 2, 2007:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/clothing_on_amandas_bed.jpg

There was a second inspection of Amanda's room on December 18, 2007. Are there any photos of the room on that date? Was there ever an inventory list made of the items in Amanda's room on any date it was inspected?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

halides1, thank you for your kind words.

If I wanted to "play around" with the images, I could have. I used photos as presented on the internet.

I have uploaded Rinaldi's presentations:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/rinaldi1.pdf
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/rinaldi2.pdf

You may wish to use your caliper tool to confirm dimensions. Here's my analysis of Rinaldi's measuring error:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/footprint_measurements.html

 

[Fuji]

It is relevant because Filomena told the police what Amanda was wearing on the day of the murder, and the police claimed that this clothing was missing. The "missing sweatshirt" in fact became part of the dossier of evidence against Amanda that was reviewed by the Italian Supreme Court, as I have posted above. But then, in March 2008, they went back to the cottage and there was Amanda's sweatshirt and the rest of her clothing, strewn across her bed in plain sight, left there when she showered and changed into clean clothing, exactly as she said.

Here's a picture of the "missing sweatshirt," taken by police on Nov. 2, 2007:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/clothing_on_amandas_bed.jpg

Still irrelevant. Just because the Perugia investigators mistakenly thought there was a missing sweatshirt, does not mean LondonJohn's larger point - that an inability to prove the absence of particular items of Knox's wardrobe is "interesting" - is correct.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

There was a second inspection of Amanda's room on December 18, 2007. Are there any photos of the room on that date? Was there ever an inventory list made of the items in Amanda's room on any date it was inspected?

I don't see Amanda's room in any of the Dec. 18 photos, except for the luminol reaction on the floor. I'm also not aware of any inventory of items.

Also, I don't think they tested any of the stuff they retrieved when they went back in March 2008, or at least, I don't have the results of any such tests and I have never heard any mention of them. For example, I'm not aware that they tested Amanda's clothing for bloodstains.

 

[christianahannah]

I don't see Amanda's room in any of the Dec. 18 photos, except for the luminol reaction on the floor. I'm also not aware of any inventory of items.

Also, I don't think they tested any of the stuff they retrieved when they went back in March 2008, or at least, I don't have the results of any such tests and I have never heard any mention of them. For example, I'm not aware that they tested Amanda's clothing for bloodstains.

Thank you Charlie. I believe a television monitor was hooked up for viewing what was occurring inside the cottage. There has been video played of the bra clasp which was located in Meredith's room. Do you know if there is complete video of what was done in the cottage on December 18, 2007?

Also, in your view, what are the items of clothing on Amanda's bed?

 

[Supernaut]

Amanda is a fan of "Hard-A"[,] a brew of mixed booze. Memory loss can be exacerbated by combinations of stimulants and there's really no "possibly" about memory loss - blackouts are a universally recognised phenomena.

"Hard-A"? You've obvously read the same sources I have whihc refer to the slang for certain hard-liquor cocktails amongst student bodies and young people generally in the Seattle area (if not the Pacific N.W.)

But I hadn't read that "Amanda is a fan" (or even that she's much of a drinker, for that matter). Until now.

So, kindly provide your source for the allegation of alcohol abuse that you just casually injected into the discussion.

Both the defendant's diaries make clear their profound regret for their drug use. Why, since they only have "one joint"?

People routinely say they "smoked a joint" when they mean an evening of getting stoned.

Raff referred explicitly and ONLY to marijuana - that he would "never smoke another joint in his life", IOW, he wasn't ever going to get stoned again. And perhaps you're unaware of the extraordinary potency of the strains of hydroponically-grown "skunk" which are the most commonly available weed in continental Europe these days (more's the pity - I miss the sweet Thai-stick and others that were around in my day)? You being a "lawyer", though, that would be rather odd.

As far is Amanda is concerned, I don't recall her referring to "profound regret" about her "drug use".

Whatever, this is is all rather sly, as have been all previous attempts to smear she and Raf with baseless references to their "probable" use of "coke", "crack" or un-specified "hard drugs".

If you can't provide sources for any of these allegations (alcohol and substance abuse), and the quotes from her diary expressing her "profound regret" for it, I guess we'll just have to assume that your purpose is to wilfully propagate maliciously-intended rumour and hearsay, won't we?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Thank you Charlie. I believe a television monitor was hooked up for viewing what was occurring inside the cottage. There has been video played of the bra clasp which was located in Meredith's room. Do you know if there is complete video of what was done in the cottage on December 18, 2007?

Also, in your view, what are the items of clothing on Amanda's bed?

I don't know what was going on with the monitor, but a lot of video was shot that day. PM me if you want it. It's more than a gigabyte even after I rendered it with the most efficient codec I could find.

As for what's on the bed, to me it looks like a pair of jeans, a denim jacket, a zippered fleece sweatshirt, a roughly woven striped cotton pullover, and a scarf. Here is a photo that is cropped, but in the original resolution:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/clothing_on_amandas_bed_hires.jpg

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

"Hard-A"? You've obvously read the same sources I have whihc refer to the slang for certain hard-liquor cocktails amongst student bodies and young people generally in the Seattle area (if not the Pacific N.W.)

But I hadn't read that "Amanda is a fan" (or even that she's much of a drinker, for that matter). Until now.

So, kindly provide your source for the allegation of alcohol abuse that you just casually injected into the discussion.

Nobody has ever said she was anything except a very light, very occasional drinker. Nor has any evidence surfaced that would indicate that she or Raffaele so much as cracked open a beer on the night of the murder. They smoked some hash, watched Amelie, and had sex.

 

[Supernaut]

Nobody has ever said she was anything except a very light, very occasional drinker. Nor has any evidence surfaced that would indicate that she or Raffaele so much as cracked open a beer on the night of the murder. They smoked some hash, watched Amelie, and had sex.

It was hash they smoked, then?

 

[LondonJohn]

Nobody has ever said she was anything except a very light, very occasional drinker. Nor has any evidence surfaced that would indicate that she or Raffaele so much as cracked open a beer on the night of the murder. They smoked some hash, watched Amelie, and had sex.

Ah, but as the saying goes, never let the truth get in the way of a good story...

 

[christianahannah]

I don't know what was going on with the monitor, but a lot of video was shot that day. PM me if you want it. It's more than a gigabyte even after I rendered it with the most efficient codec I could find.

As for what's on the bed, to me it looks like a pair of jeans, a denim jacket, a zippered fleece sweatshirt, a roughly woven striped cotton pullover, and a scarf. Here is a photo that is cropped, but in the original resolution:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/clothing_on_amandas_bed_hires.jpg

I think the monitor was for the viewing for all parties concerned of what was going on inside the cottage.

Is it the black and white striped pullover that was lost but now is found?

ETA: Also to add, Charlie: Was this photo of Amanda's room (with the clothes on her bed) shown to the public through television or print media prior to the trial?

 

[colonelhall]

Back to discussing the drugs and booze again.

It is irrelevant what they took. They took enough of something that caused memory loss. Either that, or they are lying.

 

[piktor]

I have uploaded Rinaldi's presentations:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/rinaldi1.pdf
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/rinaldi2.pdf

You may wish to use your caliper tool to confirm dimensions. Here's my analysis of Rinaldi's measuring error:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/footprint_measurements.html

Thank you for these documents.

I have posted at PMF new diagrams.

I think exact measurements are not needed because the approximate shapes are markedly different from Sollecito's to Guede's.

If the bathmat photo is faithful, and the defendant's footprint samples are equally proportional to it, a few millimeters do not affect the resulting comparative samples I have posted. The general shape and sweep of the outlines tell the story.

What I do know is Sollecito's width measurements coincide exactly with the bathmat measurements.

Guede's big toe does not match the bathmat markings at all but his footprint axis points are generally coincidental with the bathmat axis markings, even as I moved the outline to the left. Until I posted the new image I realized I moved it a bit more to the left than I should have but an eye adjustment can correct this without needing to re-do the image.

 

[RWVBWL]

Given that there is no way to establish a definitive inventory of Knox's clothing, before and after the murder, your proposition "nobody can remember a piece of clothing or footwear that they'd seen Knox wearing previously that was no longer accounted for" is completely irrelevant.

Perhaps if an unusually noteworthy item of clothing (e.g. the yellow dress she wore when pictured behind the machine gun) were to have gone missing, that might be noteworthy. Otherwise, this is a completely pointless line of discussion.

_________________________________________________________________

Hi there Fuji,
It's too bad that the cops fried Amanda Knox's laptop computer,
for maybe some of the photographs of Merredith and Amanda together that were on it might have "helped"
the police prove that Amanda had on a missing murder outfit on the night Miss Kercher was brutally stabbed to her death.

I wonder how it came to be that Amanda Knox nor Raffaele Sollecito had not 1 drop of Meredith Kercher's blood on any item of their clothing?
Hmmm...
RWVBWL

 

[Kestrel]

Back to discussing the drugs and booze again.

It is irrelevant what they took. They took enough of something that caused memory loss. Either that, or they are lying.

The police told Amanda and Raff they had clear video evidence of Amanda going to the cottage the night of the murder. Amanda and Raff didn't remember this happening, so that makes them liars? Even when it's been proven that the police were lying about the video evidence?

If you watched the Kassin video posted yesterday, you would understand the Perugia police used the methods Kassin described as leading to false statements. Make false claims that you have evidence against the defendant. Keep the suspects up late to put them into a sleep deprived state, keep them away from legal advice. Yell at them, scream at them, slap them around a bit to help disorient them. Make the suspects answer the same questions again and again for hours on end. Then start suggesting they had a memory loss. Ask them to visualize what must have happened during their memory lapse.

The goal of Amanda and Raff's interrogations that night wasn't to find the truth. It was to extract statements matching the prosecution's conspiracy theory.

 

[colonelhall]

RWVWBL: " wonder how it came to be that Amanda Knox nor Raffaele Sollecito had not 1 drop of Meredith Kercher's blood on any item of their clothing?"

Shouldn't that be "any item of their clothing that has been recovered?"

 

[RWVBWL]

RWVWBL: " wonder how it came to be that Amanda Knox nor Raffaele Sollecito had not 1 drop of Meredith Kercher's blood on any item of their clothing?"

Shouldn't that be "any item of their clothing that has been recovered?"

_________________________________________________________________

Hi there colonelhall,
Nice response,
but 1 that, I feel, adds a sinister note to the issue.
Maybe it's just the approaching season of Halloween here in the U.S.A. that gives it that appearance...

BUT the fact that Amanda Knox's "missing sweatshirt" was "found" exactly where she said it always was leads me to believe that all of her clothing was where she left it and where it was then found,
not "recovered".
Hmmm...
RWVBWL

 

[RWVBWL]

Hi once more colonelhall,
Let us continue the discussion about Amanda Knox's, and hence Raffaelle Sollecito's clothing that these 2 convicted murderers must have wore the night Meredith Kercher was brutally stabbed to her death.

1 would think that they must have gotten some blood on their clothing if they did so partake in this particularly bloody murder, so when and where did they change out of their bloody clothing?

As far as I have read, there was not a single drop of Miss Kercher's blood found in Amanda Knox's bedroom nor was there a single drop of her blood found in Raffaele Sollecito's apartment. I would think that the cops would have checked the drain to his sink and shower for traces of it, wouldn't you?

I wonder why there was no blood drops ever found?
(Heck, IIRC even the OJ Simpson/Simpson murder had blood drops back at OJ's house.)
How did these 2 "stoners" mangage to get rid of their bloody clothing without leaving a trace of evidence behind that they changed out of bloody clothing to clean, unstained clothing before the cops showed up?
Hmmm...
RWVBWL