Homosexuality is a choice

[SezMe]

Okay, so homosexuality is a choice. That means anyone can choose to be a homosexual by their own free will. Fine.

Scenario: I've kidnapped you and I'm pointing a gun at you. I say "Become a homosexual now and really mean it, or I shoot you in the head"

What do you do?

Do you concede my demand and become a homosexual or do you have me shoot you?

This is my rifle
This is my gun
This is for fightn'
This is for fun

 

[Craig4]

I'm a bit curious as to why the only two choices here seem to be either it's a choice or you are born that way. Why are we rejecting the idea that there could be environmental factors which could play a role in sexual orientation and it's still not a choice? Just because you're behavior is influenced by an environmental doesn't mean you're making a choice.

 

[bikerdruid]

I'm a bit curious as to why the only two choices here seem to be either it's a choice or you are born that way. Why are we rejecting the idea that there could be environmental factors which could play a role in sexual orientation and it's still not a choice? Just because you're behavior is influenced by an environmental doesn't mean you're making a choice.

true....studies have shown that in higher population areas, the percentage of homosexuals increases.
that seems clearly a biological/environmental factor to keep population density in check.

 

[Bishadi]

An yet, oddly enough, there are people who actually choose suicide, even when there are other viable options.

is the best analogy on the thread.


ie.. procreation is the purpose of sex via nature.

Cell-divisions is the same; the life gives a portion of itself to live into the next generation.


The issue is few maintain the concept of what intercourse is for based on the enjoyment factor. Naturally the parts are what the gender and SEXUAL ORIENTATION of the person is born with. ie... biology sets the orientation and same sexual relations are of choice in 99.9999999999999999999999% of the cases.

To even teach a child that is not genetically hemorphradite that same sexual preference to the extent of sexual needs, is not their choice is lying to that human being. No matter what any psychologist is willing to put their credentials on the line.

 

[Skwinty]

true....studies have shown that in higher population areas, the percentage of homosexuals increases.
that seems clearly a biological/environmental factor to keep population density in check.

How does that work on children?
Some gay people say that they knew they were gay at an early age. Are you saying that the parents pass that on to their offspring as the child is too young to realise the implications of over population.

 

[bikerdruid]

How does that work on children?
Some gay people say that they knew they were gay at an early age. Are you saying that the parents pass that on to their offspring as the child is too young to realise the implications of over population.

i don't presume to know.
i was queer from early childhood.
however, since i was catholic, i thought i was the only one in the world and i was goin' to hell.

 

[Mr. Scott]

Sex is without purpose

procreation is the purpose of sex

I prefer not to word it that way since nature and evolution have no purpose.

In humans, sex results in procreation less than 1% of the time.

Practically everything in nature exists because it's been better at existing than what doesn't exist.

Sex exists because recombination of parental genes are generally advantageous to offspring.

Sex also promotes social bonding in many animals (eg bonobos).

Bonding sex in humans can keep parents together so they will more likely stay teamed up to raise offspring.

When the opposite sex is not present (eg jails and segregated boarding schools) homosexual relations can keep the plumbing and emotions primed for future heterosexual relations.

In some animals homosexuality maintains pecking order (eg spotted hyenas), improving the social stability of a group. Gay sex can work this way for humans. There is a sexually maintained pecking order in the gay community and gay communities include bisexual (reproductive) members.

Homosexuality may also be another misfiring of our clunkyly evolved brains, but since the rate is pretty stable, there's reason to believe it's occurrence is generally advantageous. We are messily evolved, but in a free society, messes are permitted.

It's easy to see advantages to certain rates and types of homosexuality, but not, strictly speaking, a natural "purpose."

 

[Mycroft]

How does that work on children?
Some gay people say that they knew they were gay at an early age. Are you saying that the parents pass that on to their offspring as the child is too young to realise the implications of over population.

I don't think anyone is saying overpopulation leads children to consciously choose to be gay.

 

[Skwinty]

I don't think anyone is saying overpopulation leads children to consciously choose to be gay.

I am not saying that either.
Craig4 asked why only 2 reasons for being gay.
1. You are born that way.
2. You choose to be that way.

He then says enviromental issues can be a cause, to which Bikerdruid states that overpopulation is an environmental cause of people being gay.

My question was, how does that influence children, as many gays say they knew they were gay at an early age?

If you are a heterosexual adult and the population is inreasing rapidly, what is the trigger that makes people gay?

My feeling is that people are born that way.
I once watched a series of "in the womb" time lapse photographs of the sexual organs forming. The way the male and female organs develop are so similar, that hormonal imbalances can have a huge impact on sexual organ development or the way the brain interprets the sexuality of the individual after birth.

Hope this clarifies my question.

 

[Bishadi]

I prefer not to word it that way since nature and evolution have no purpose.

oooops! I think I see the reason; you have no idea what life is. First off philosophically speaking:

life; purposed to continue.
Ie... Once started 'it' (life) intends to continue. Did not say how or what started it but via evolution to simple fire the light will sustain if the environment sustains providing. The process in itself, the life "intends to continue" .

2nd: life; abuses entropy

3rd: most instinctive critters, bonoboos, dolphins etc... Are frustrated and why the same sex is taken/offered.

The parts are for the duty and just because and willi wankin mandrel will scar a grown man for life does not mean the toys are there for fun.

So whether a person or a critter enjoys the sensations does not mean it is natural. In fact to succumb to self indulgence can be quite rude. But then again I wear glasses now too.

In humans, sex results in procreation less than 1% of the time.

Practically everything in nature exists because it's been better at existing than what doesn't exist.

Sex exists because recombination of parental genes are generally advantageous to offspring.

Sex also promotes social bonding in many animals (eg bonobos).

Bonding sex in humans can keep parents together so they will more likely stay teamed up to raise offspring.

When the opposite sex is not present (eg jails and segregated boarding schools) homosexual relations can keep the plumbing and emotions primed for future heterosexual relations.

In some animals homosexuality maintains pecking order (eg spotted hyenas), improving the social stability of a group. Gay sex can work this way for humans. There is a sexually maintained pecking order in the gay community and gay communities include bisexual (reproductive) members.

Homosexuality may also be another misfiring of our clunkyly evolved brains, but since the rate is pretty stable, there's reason to believe it's occurrence is generally advantageous. We are messily evolved, but in a free society, messes are permitted.

It's easy to see advantages to certain rates and types of homosexuality, but not, strictly speaking, a natural "purpose."

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

oooops! I think I see the reason; you have no idea what life is. First off philosophically speaking:

life; purposed to continue.
Ie... Once started 'it' (life) intends to continue. Did not say how or what started it but via evolution to simple fire the light will sustain if the environment sustains providing. The process in itself, the life "intends to continue" .

2nd: life; abuses entropy

3rd: most instinctive critters, bonoboos, dolphins etc... Are frustrated and why the same sex is taken/offered.

The parts are for the duty and just because and willi wankin mandrel will scar a grown man for life does not mean the toys are there for fun.

So whether a person or a critter enjoys the sensations does not mean it is natural. In fact to succumb to self indulgence can be quite rude. But then again I wear glasses now too.

How bout them Lions!

 

[SezMe]

The issue is few maintain the concept of what intercourse is for based on the enjoyment factor. Naturally the parts are what the gender and SEXUAL ORIENTATION of the person is born with. ie... biology sets the orientation and same sexual relations are of choice in 99.9999999999999999999999% of the cases.

The percent includes everyone on the planet with several orders of magnitude left over. Care to recalculate?

 

[SezMe]

2nd: life; abuses entropy

Nope.

3rd: most instinctive critters, bonoboos, dolphins etc... Are frustrated and why the same sex is taken/offered.

How do you know these critters are frustrated? Did you have a conversation about it?

The parts are for the duty and just because and willi wankin mandrel will scar a grown man for life does not mean the toys are there for fun.

Have you ever masturbated, Bishadi?

So whether a person or a critter enjoys the sensations does not mean it is natural.

Enjoyment of a sensation is not natural? What a weird claim.

 

[Craig4]

2nd: life; abuses entropy

3rd: most instinctive critters, bonoboos, dolphins etc... Are frustrated and why the same sex is taken/offered.

The parts are for the duty and just because and willi wankin mandrel will scar a grown man for life does not mean the toys are there for fun.

So whether a person or a critter enjoys the sensations does not mean it is natural. In fact to succumb to self indulgence can be quite rude. But then again I wear glasses now too.

Where are you getting that life abuses entropy? Organisms are open systems. Spend some quality time reading about the laws of thermodynamics. They say nothing about open systems.

Where are you getting that masturbation scars people for life? Got some studies somewhere to support that conclusion?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

The discussion has moved to more interesting points, but I hate to see something like this just left to dangle.

There are plenty of evolutionary reasons for homosexuality in a population. One does not have to contribute DNA to contribute to the survival of the family. This may be on reason why homosexuality is so common in other species, as well.

I've only made it this far in the thread, but I too am glad to see that someone retrieved this from being lost.

There is, in any population, a given percentage that will not reproduce but are still capable of providing a benefit to the continuation of their species. I think it's important to remember that evolution via natural selection targets survival of the species, not the individual's genes.

In fact, this very argument is defeated often enough by the later produced argument against homosexuals adopting. If a homosexual couple is willing to raise a child, does that not help fulfill their obligation to assisting in survival of our species?

I personally have no desire to reproduce (heterosexual in a longterm relationship). Whatever those reasons may be, the point remains that it is no less immoral/wrong/crime-against-nature for my gf and I to marry/enjoy sexual relations/etc than it is for a pair of homosexuals.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Where are you getting that masturbation scars people for life?

Curses! That must be why I'm so screwy in the head

 

[Emet]

Where are you getting that life abuses entropy? Organisms are open systems. Spend some quality time reading about the laws of thermodynamics. They say nothing about open systems.

Where are you getting that masturbation scars people for life? Got some studies somewhere to support that conclusion?

(bolding mine)

Guess you haven't spent much time over at SMT, Craig4.

There are a many threads with statements like that over there.

link

 

[Craig4]

You use that word (entropy) a lot. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Bishadi]

The percent includes everyone on the planet with several orders of magnitude left over. Care to recalculate?

No need to. A human being makes a choice.

If dogs can't think, then no wonder they do what they are told.

So run your own experiments;

ask the dog if they have a choice of what reaction they will make

and then ask human beings.

 

[Bishadi]

Nope.

that is kind of a reactionary response

How do you know these critters are frustrated? Did you have a conversation about it?

i often watch while some read about it.

Have you ever masturbated, Bishadi?

500, 750 and even 1000 hook long lines, with both anchovie or squid

Enjoyment of a sensation is not natural? What a weird claim.

same sex intercourse is not natural.


many dont think so, but many will lie to themselves even unto suicide.