The Punishment of Gaza

[Elind]

Mate...do you comprehend the difference between the words amended and redrafted. If you do then help Mycroft.

I'm not sure that I do in this context. I understand it has meaning to you, but I am more simple and give greater weight to actions than words, or promised words.

Sorry.

 

[The Fool]

I'm not sure that I do in this context. I understand it has meaning to you, but I am more simple and give greater weight to actions than words, or promised words.

Sorry.

I understand your viewpoint....so why are you participating in a a semantic argument?


I've got an idea, lets take a break and instead we can all get our underwear in a twist about the Likud charter which says no palestinian state ever...under any circumstances. We can discuss how this doesn't matter when discussing thier involvement in supposedly negotiating this very thing....

we can all agree that foundation documents of Israeli political parties don't matter all that much but palestinian ones...well, they are an outrage pure and simple.

 

[Mycroft]

Lol...yes Mycroft thats correct. Obama could do that but I doubt it would be accepted by anyone....what do you think?

I agree the notion is absurd, but that was my point. Such a letter wouldn't change anything. Exactly like Arafat's letter.

yes, whatever...

from your own link..

"Like President Clinton, Israel and the Likud party now formally agreed that the objectionable clauses of the charter had been abrogated, in official statements and statements by Prime Minister Netanyahu, Foreign Minister Sharon, Defense Minister Mordechai and Trade and Industry Minister Sharansky.[12][13][14][15] With official Israeli objections to the Charter disappearing henceforward from lists of Palestinian violations of agreements [16], the international legal controversy ended."

however the legal controversy whipped up by partisan hacks in the Jref politics forum goes on

Yes, all those people made public statements praising the Palestinian for beginning the process. Unfortunately that process was never completed. The PNC agreed to abrogate the offensive portions of their charter, they even directed their legal committee to redraft it, they just never got around to doing it.

I'm sorry, but when a bunch of grown men claiming to be trying to form a government can't figure out how to accomplish in twelve years what amounts to a weekend's worth of homework for a typical high-school student, I come to the conclusion that their heart isn't really into it. I know you have a lot more faith in them than that, that for you the promise of maybe thinking about doing something sometime in the future is the same as having it done, but the rest of us like to see more concrete action.

be very very carefull mycroft, this appears to be a case of you publicly disagreeing with Netanyahu, Sharon, Mordechai and even the great man Sharansky!! Your head must be spinning.

Someday you must explain this bizarre obsession you have with comparing my statements with the views of various public people. You have this weird pattern of claiming my opinion always conforms to this or that person, then when you find examples where it doesn't, you somehow hold me at fault for it.

One would think eventually you would figure out it doesn't bother me in the slightest when you contradict yourself. My head doesn't spin, explode, or even get a mild headache over it.

 

[Mycroft]

we can all agree that foundation documents of Israeli political parties don't matter all that much but palestinian ones...well, they are an outrage pure and simple.

Okay, so we have you on record as claiming there is nothing wrong with the Likud party platform. I personally think it's problematic and should be revised. I'm pretty sure that when they do get around to revising it they won't just send someone a letter claiming that part doesn't apply anymore, that they will actually have someone re-draft it to say what they mean. In the United States, our political parties re-draft their platforms every time they have a convention.

 

[WildCat]

II've got an idea, lets take a break and instead we can all get our underwear in a twist about the Likud charter which says no palestinian state ever...under any circumstances.

Are you claiming a poitical party platform is the law of the land?

Are you really comparing this to the PNC?

Really?

Really?

 

[Elind]

I understand your viewpoint....so why are you participating in a a semantic argument?

Semantics is the bane of intelligent argument. What is the point in discussing anything using the same words, when both sides assign different meanings to them?

I've got an idea, lets take a break and instead we can all get our underwear in a twist about the Likud charter which says no palestinian state ever...under any circumstances. We can discuss how this doesn't matter when discussing thier involvement in supposedly negotiating this very thing....

I don't deny that Israel has their share of jerks, or worse. This, like most real word scenarios is not a case of good versus evil. It is better versus worse; or possibly smarter versus stupider...

we can all agree that foundation documents of Israeli political parties don't matter all that much but palestinian ones...well, they are an outrage pure and simple.

Sarcasm noted.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Still waiting to see this supposed redraft. Whole argument could be ended with a simple link from Fool.

 

[The Fool]

Still waiting to see this supposed redraft. Whole argument could be ended with a simple link from Fool.

How many times do I have to say that no redraft exists....how long do you plan to keep asking me to produce it?

 

[The Fool]

I agree the notion is absurd, but that was my point. Such a letter wouldn't change anything. Exactly like Arafat's letter.

except for one minor point. Arafats letter did change something. Before it nobody accepted that the clauses were abrogated...after it they did (except for a small band of zealots).

Yes, all those people made public statements praising the Palestinian for beginning the process.

No, that is a gross misrepresentation. They did not praise anyone for beginning the process of abrogating the clauses. They accepted that it has been done.

Unfortunately that process was never completed.

This point of view requires that redrafting is a precondition to the abrogation being accepted.....which is not the case. You require it......so what.

 

[SezMe]

I try to read these Israeli threads for the E in JREF but I have to say that the endless, repetitious, boring, inane, worthless to and fro about the charter just about kills that "E". Could you guys talk about something else? Nobody here is going to change anyone else's mind which makes it all so pointless.

 

[Doctor Evil]

I try to read these Israeli threads for the E in JREF

You are doing it wrong, man

 

[The Fool]

I try to read these Israeli threads for the E in JREF but I have to say that the endless, repetitious, boring, inane, worthless to and fro about the charter just about kills that "E". Could you guys talk about something else? Nobody here is going to change anyone else's mind which makes it all so pointless.

we could cease arguing with conspiracy theorists, clairvoyants, those that talk to the dead .....as well as......umm...those guys that treat serious illnesses with water thats had some ingredient diluted out of it. After all, we are not going to change any of their minds.

 

[SezMe]

we could cease arguing with conspiracy theorists, clairvoyants, those that talk to the dead .....as well as......umm...those guys that treat serious illnesses with water thats had some ingredient diluted out of it. After all, we are not going to change any of their minds.

Doesn't matter. Sure, some people get hurt by their nuttiness, but by and large, it's not life or death. For example, 911 is basically a dead topic which gets thrashed about still but nobody is going to get hurt.

The middle-east is different. It's deadly serious. So - for me - the merrygoround which is the contents of the charter is not only boring, but it is symptomatic of the larger problem: endless bickering over history with minds set in concrete and nowhere to go.

 

[SezMe]

You are doing it wrong, man

Yeah, you're probably right. I should either avoid the topic or just lurk, me and my barf bag.

 

[WildCat]

The middle-east is different. It's deadly serious. So - for me - the merrygoround which is the contents of the charter is not only boring, but it is symptomatic of the larger problem: endless bickering over history with minds set in concrete and nowhere to go.

It's not "endless bickering over history", it's whether or not the PA has lived up to its previous committments.

 

[Skeptic]

Remind me to do all my shopping at The Fool's grocery store.

Apparently, in his store, you don't actually have to pay any money for the purchases. All you need to do is to scribble a note saying that, sometime in the future, perhaps you will pay.

And if 12 (or 17) years have passed and you still haven't paid, so what? There's a scribbled note saying you intend to, so that's as good as money in the bank.

I guess.

 

[Mycroft]

Remind me to do all my shopping at The Fool's grocery store.

Apparently, in his store, you don't actually have to pay any money for the purchases. All you need to do is to scribble a note saying that, sometime in the future, perhaps you will pay.

And if 12 (or 17) years have passed and you still haven't paid, so what? There's a scribbled note saying you intend to, so that's as good as money in the bank.

I guess.

Well, to be fair to the Fool, you also need the shopkeeper to issue a statement saying you agreed to pay, then it's a done deal.

 

[applecorped]

I try to read these Israeli threads for the E in JREF but I have to say that the endless, repetitious, boring, inane, worthless to and fro about the charter just about kills that "E". Could you guys talk about something else? Nobody here is going to change anyone else's mind which makes it all so pointless.

The E stands for endless.