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Hello from a non-skeptic

Charles, you haven't answered the question. During the years that you stopped believing, the Ouija board experience had already happened to you. So, during those years, what thoughts did you have about the Ouija board session? How did you account for the events of that night when you thought about them? To what did you attribute the movement of the shuttle and the answers that it gave?

Life and its hardships, I guess. I left home when I was just 18. My parents had moved to England, I was forced to move with them, but as soon as I was 18 I came back. My thinking then was that, just as when we kill an ant that is the end of its existence, why would we be any different? I guess I just put the episode of the Ouija at the back of my mind and carried on with things...
 
Finally, Loss Leader is correct: You did not answer my question.

Sorry, I have been bombarded with so many questions here and so little time to reply to all of them. Which one specifically?
 
Life and its hardships, I guess. I left home when I was just 18. My parents had moved to England, I was forced to move with them, but as soon as I was 18 I came back. My thinking then was that, just as when we kill an ant that is the end of its existence, why would we be any different? I guess I just put the episode of the Ouija at the back of my mind and carried on with things...
Reference the highlighted part: Do you still think this?
 
Reference the highlighted part: Do you still think this?

No, I nowadays believe that all things hold a form of consciousness, including insects and plants, that survives material/physical death (I have made reference to the experiment of the lie-detector and the variations found in a plant when a man entered the room with a pair of scissors).
 
No, nowadays I believe that all things hold a form of consciousness, including insects and plants, that survives material/physical death
Consistency is good.


Charles Boden said:
(I have made reference to the experiment of the lie-detector and the variations found in a plant when a man entered the room with a pair of scissors).
Have you looked into them more closely than you have the Stevenson reincarnation claims and the Jacqui Poole case?
 
I noticed through this conversation they assume co dependency as quickly as religious and psychic 'supporters" Which rather dismayed me. When co dependency is present there is no evidence in the world that will sway anyone believer, skeptic, or debunker. I mean that is true in every day life.

I would do far better with a skeptic who did not go into those parameters and that is just common sense, everyone does better in relationships that dont' go into co dependency.

:confused:

Yes! The claims made by psychics certainly are testable.

They are testable but only within the parameters of the psychics ability.

Who said otherwise?

If a psychic is not all knowing or a mind reader but many of the test parameters are set up to test for that. That's fine if the psychic is all knowing and a mind reader. A psychic must first completely define the extent of their abilities to themselves. There are things done consistently, there things done not consistently. No one proves anything through inconsistency.

It's rather difficult to make sense of what you are saying, but I think the gist of it is that tests of psychic abilities must be set up within the parameters of the psychic's ability so that we don't test for things that the psychic

Also psychism is confused for instantaneous. Some psychic tests take months to validate or invalidate. Predictive events don't happen within moments of the prediction.

Who said they had to?
 
Interesting. Which one would you care to discuss? I am most versed in the Poole case myself.

Fine, the Pool case first then. Did she or did she not (the medium) correctly give several details of the murder including who the assassin was?
 
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Fine, the Pool case first then. Did she or did she not correctly give several details of the murder including who the assassin was?
Excellent. But first please answer one of the questions I asked you some time ago. It is quite simple, but I will rephrase it into a task:

Name one thing that Holohan told the police that they did not already know.
 
Sounds like a typical spiritual journey. The process of learning, disagreeing with what you learned, are confused by what you learned, what you learned is in opposition to what you are experiencing, so you suspend belief in what you learned and then finally forge on.

It sounds exactly like my spiritual journey towards skepticism except for that suspension of disbelief part towards the end there.

I learned a bunch of woo crap, from astrology to UFO conspiracies to Wicca to crystal magic and natural healing. I found reason to disagree with what I learned about those things, mainly since none of them seemed to have any effect whatsoever. I was confused by what I learned since everyone around me was also steeped in woo crap and believed in it deeply. What I learned about logic and reality was in opposition to what I thought I'd experienced while steeped in woo crap, until I suspended my acceptance and belief enough to learn about confirmation bias, paredolia, the law of large numbers, and other fallacies, and was able to realize that what I'd initially learned was based on wishful thinking and ignorance. I then discarded all of my previously cherished unproven beliefs in favor of logic, learning, and a reality-based view of the world.

I'm perfectly happy, and I don't have to shell out lots of money on people's awful books about their pet unproven theories on the nonexistent. No more witches, ghosts, prophecies, curses, spells, predictions, interdimensional sages, demons, angels, or unseen spiritual planes---I don't have to worry about any of those things ever again, and finally my mind is at rest. It's grand, you should try it some day.

Of course, if you simply must have a book, I recommend Sagan's The Demon Haunted World. There are used copies available for less than $5, less than I paid for The Prophecies of Nostradamus back in 1992 ($9.95, paperback).
 
Name one thing that Holohan told the police that they did not already know.

And the significance of this is?

I have seen other documented cases of mediums who assisted the police with details they indeed didn't know.
 
To show good faith, I'll answer while waiting for your response:

Fine, the Pool case first then. Did she or did she not (the medium) correctly give several details of the murder
Nothing that the police did not already know and nothing that was not fairly easily discoverable through a combination of reading the extensive media coverage or conducting her own quick search in the town in which both the medium (Holohan) and the victim (Poole) lived.


Charles Boden said:
including who the assassin was?
No. She definitely did not do this.
 
Apology, you replied to wareagle, but I am not in disagreement that there is a heck of a lot of crap around...
 
My question:


So, during those years, what thoughts did you have about the Ouija board session? How did you account for the events of that night when you thought about them? To what did you attribute the movement of the shuttle and the answers that it gave?


Your answer:


I guess I just put the episode of the Ouija at the back of my mind and carried on with things...


My reply:

<stunned silence>
 
And the significance of this is?
You really don't see?

Charles Boden said:
I have seen other documented cases of mediums who assisted the police with details they indeed didn't know.
No. You have seen claims of it. This has been a past time of mine for quite some years, and I have looked into most major cases held out as proof. None hold up to scrutiny.

Regardless, we are discussing Holohan, not other mediums. Please stick to her.
 
I have seen other documented cases of mediums who assisted the police with details they indeed didn't know.


Please point me to these documents. I am unaware of any psychic who has ever provided assistance to any police agency in any investigation of anything.
 
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Please point me to these documents. I am unaware of any psychic who has ever provided assistance to any police agency in any investigation of anything.
While I agree with the sentiment, might I request that we not derail this discussion unless Charles admits openly that he cannot defend the Poole case as demonstrating psi.
 
Ah, so we are doubting all and any sources. Agreed, the reference I gave was an article in a sensacionalist paper. I certainly would not have used the same terminology used in the article I posted a link to, but you are saying that her case and that of others we see on TV are all faked inventions. Hmmmm.
 

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