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Hello from a non-skeptic

Do we have the means and the instruments to truly verifiy such phenomenae? I would say "not yet", which by no means can be considered as proof of their non-existence...

Yet for some reason, you have the means and instruments to find out exactly how these things work and why.

It's unfortunate you lack the means and instruments to share your findings with us, as I'm sure they would have been very convincing.

It really is rather ridiculous of you to accuse the people here of being closed-minded. What exactly are we being closed-minded about? You haven't presented any evidence, nor made any claim that hasn't been made a hundred times before. You aren't willing to accept any of the ideas presented by others, yet are calling us close-minded for not blindly accepting your vague stories of reincarnation and clairvoyance.

Think about it. If you came to this forum as a neutral observer, and began reading your own thread, would you believe your own story?
 
And you can claim this so adamantly because...?


The statement, 'There's no such thing as a psychic' is based on lack of evidence. You cannot prove that I don't travel through the centre of the Earth every night by projecting my soul into an invisible butterfly that can travel through solid objects. Although I can provide you with anecdotes, I cannot provide you with any evidence.

Do you think it is unreasonable to conclude that I don't travel through the centre of the Earth via invisible butterfly? How can you claim this so adamently?


Guys, it was not a question of my own choice to believe in what I believe, but rather the circumstances of what I came to encounter, as I did my best to share and describe in the story I wrote, which in fact was written precisely for this reason and no other. I am by no means saying to anyone here to go and buy it. I would be more than willing to share the main points and passages here if I truly felt it would make any difference. What do I expect to gain in doing so? Nothing, precisely, so why have I? What would have taken me to expose myself to being ridiculed? Nothing but the sincere intention of providing some food for thought and hopefully a little message of hope that there is much more to our existences than just what meets the eye.


I have little doubt you believe these things, but that doesn't count as evidence. Human beings are fallible. Anyone can be wrong. The fact is, the majority of the people on this forum are only willing to accept extraordinary cliams as true if it is supported by evidence. If it isn't, your claim falls into the same bucket as my invisible butterfly.


I have, personally, encountered some events and phenomenae that I was not able to discard as easily as you guys seem to be prone to doing concerning any evidence that might be presented to you. As I said, for a number of years I was also skeptical of anything paranormal or spiritual myself (from around the age of 18 to the age of 30, to be a bit more precise and answer one of the many questions made to me here). It was the events I encountered that changed this, not a pre-tendency to believe in them.


We don't discard evidence. We discard anecdotes. Your claim of astonishing accuracy is as reliable as the claim that Derren Brown achieved 90% accuracy in his very non-psychic experiment.

Or do you believe Derren Brown to be secretly psychic?


In all honesty, my main purpose in coming into this forum was really just to give a little shake to your all-knowing pedestals. There is plenty of evidence around of the existence of phenomenae that is beyond our current knowledge, but rather than an unbiased analysis of such phenomenae, it has become clear to me that the vast majority here are simply pre-conceptual regarding anything of such nature, without truly maintaining the necessary detachment that it would take for experimenting and testing upon an issue of such seriousness and importance as this one.


Skeptics are not all-knowing. They are all-doubting. It takes evidence to sway them.

The testing skeptics require needs to be completely independent of both the point of view of the skeptic and the point of view of the claimant or believer. Skeptics are under no illusion that they too may be biased.


Do we have the means and the instruments to truly verifiy such phenomenae? I would say "not yet", which by no means can be considered as proof of their non-existence...


Yes! The claims made by psychics certainly are testable.
 
Do we have the means and the instruments to truly verifiy such phenomenae? I would say "not yet", which by no means can be considered as proof of their non-existence...
There are plenty of instruments that could easily verify such phenomena, if these phenomena had any impact at all on the real world. It is the lack of a volunteer psychic, who isn't crazy as a loon, to submit to a well blinded and honest test of paranormal claimed abilities that is the problem. If you really believed your mediums, you would run, not walk, to find them and share the million dollar challenge prize winnings. This is just all talk, we have come to call it "swingdickery". We have seen it all many times.

I honestly believe that many of us are just trying to help by providing a little contact with reality. My fear is always that parents who are believers in the paranormal (while it may not greatly impact their own lives), will infect their kids with it, and this can cause unpredictable problems later in life.
 
Do we have the means and the instruments to truly verifiy such phenomenae? I would say "not yet", which by no means can be considered as proof of their non-existence...


Nothing is proof of non-existence.

Prove that I don't have an invisible dragon living in my garage.

Prove that I can never, under any circumstance, predict lottery numbers.

Prove that I am not the reincarnation of Bonnie Prince Charles.

You can't. Nobody can. You cannot prove a negative unless you are capable of proving the set of all things that exist. Since that's an infinitely large set (that refreshes itself every time we jump forward in Planck time), it cannot be known.

This fact undergirds the your most basic misunderstanding of the concept of truth and falsity. You think that anything not disproven is likely. In fact, it is the person making a claim who must show that such a thing exists.

Why should the default position be that something is true? "Lauren Graham must be pregnant because I have no information that she isn't." The default position should be that only that which can be demonstrated should be believed. That frees us from worrying about invisible dragons, reincarnated turncoats, sending baby shower gifts to Gilmore girls, and much more.

If you cannot demonstrate that yours is the only explanation for a phenomenon (or that the phenomenon is even occurring), don't lose patience with those who choose to believe a different explanation or choose to believe that nothing has occurred which requires explanation.
 
No you aren't and perception has nothing to do with it. There's no such thing as a psychic.

And you can claim this so adamantly because...?


Because nobody can gainsay me.


Guys, it was not a question of my own choice to believe in what I believe, but rather the circumstances of what I came to encounter, as I did my best to share and describe in the story I wrote, which in fact was written precisely for this reason and no other.


What you believe or don't believe is always your choice, and yours alone.


I am by no means saying to anyone here to go and buy it. I would be more than willing to share the main points and passages here if I truly felt it would make any difference.


Do, or do not. There is no try.


What do I expect to gain in doing so? Nothing, precisely, so why have I?


It's bit of a mystery to me too. Maybe you were hoping that we'd be able to disavail you of some silly notions that you seem to have picked up.


What would have taken me to expose myself to being ridiculed?


A bus? It's really a bit hard to say. Can we have some more clues?


Nothing but the sincere intention of providing some food for thought and hopefully a little message of hope that there is much more to our existences than just what meets the eye.


Why would the idea that part of our lives is hidden from us be seen as a message of hope? I'd actually find that rather depressing.


I have, personally, encountered some events and phenomenae that I was not able to discard as easily as you guys seem to be prone to doing concerning any evidence that might be presented to you.


That doesn't actually make any sense, I'm afraid. I think you're trying to pack too many ideas into single sentences and frankly, some of them don't even belong in the same paragraph.

To answer the last part, at least, we are most certainly not prone to discarding evidence. Anecdotes, however, don't have a chance.


As I said, for a number of years I was also skeptical of anything paranormal or spiritual myself (from around the age of 18 to the age of 30, to be a bit more precise and answer one of the many questions made to me here). It was the events I encountered that changed this, not a pre-tendency to believe in them.


Pre-tendency??? Geeze.

Anyway, if you weren't predisposed to believe in things then this awful, unnamed thing that happened to you wouldn't have affected you as it has.


In all honesty, my main purpose in coming into this forum was really just to give a little shake to your all-knowing pedestals.


How would you say it's working out?


There is plenty of evidence around of the existence of phenomenae that is beyond our current knowledge, but rather than an unbiased analysis of such phenomenae, it has become clear to me that the vast majority here are simply pre-conceptual regarding anything of such nature, without truly maintaining the necessary detachment that it would take for experimenting and testing upon an issue of such seriousness and importance as this one.


Please stop making up words and putting them together in run-on sentences. You're giving my Babel Fish dreadful indigestion.


Do we have the means and the instruments to truly verifiy such phenomenae? I would say "not yet", which by no means can be considered as proof of their non-existence...


How the devil are we supposed to devise the methods and equipment required to verify PHENOMENA for which there is absolutely no evidence?

ETA: Scratch that last bit. Olokow answered this point much better than I did.
 
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your all-knowing pedestals.
I can't seem to find a suitable Google picture for this. I think it's original!

Seriously, if one really considers this point carefully, it is of course the "wooist" who is on an all-knowing pedestal from which he commands the unknowing realist to prove wrong that which has never been demonstrated to exist in the first place.
 
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CleverPedestal.jpg
 
Ah yes, I can hear strains of "Pompous and Shirk'em stance" in the distance.:)
 
Ah, so the tactic is not to beat a newcomer to exhaustion, but to make use of mockery and sarcasm and be as rude as you possibly can in the hope that he/she will go away. Well done...

Weren't you convinced as a child that you had visions of an earlier life, and weren't you "informed" during a ouija session when you were 15 that you had been Prince Charles Edward Stewart? Or are you saying that despite all this you were skeptical of anything paranormal or spiritual?

Yes, that is so... But the memory of such visions only made any kind of sense much later. In our ever present disbelief, it does take a lot to start believing in what is beyond the grasp of our day by day reality. I am no different.

Didn't you write the following?


Quote:
As you know, practically since childhood I have lived under the strong impression and assumption that I once was whom I have shared with you as having been... This has held the strongest of grips upon me ever since I can remember. I have also carried with me, almost throughout my entire lifetime, a craving desire to somehow put right what in previous times I may have done wrong.

Yes, again this is so... But can you point these exact words as having been said by me in this forum?

Concerning evidence:

1. Have you ever read and analysed Dr Ian Stevenson's work concerning children who remember details of lifetimes other than their current one? He purposely directed his studies to children precisely because they are less likely to be influenced by external factors.

2. In the case of Jacqueline Pool, the medium hit 129 out of 130 details of the murder, and you want to counter-argument this by saying that it was random chance?

3. Concerning my question about the dual-slit experiment and the wave-particle effect brought about by the intent of observation on the part of the observer, have you ever watched a film-documentary called "What the "bleep" do we know?" It is quantum-physicists who point this out, not me.

You have all focussed on the weak points, but fail to comment on those that are not, and clearly avoid any objectiveness in your argumentations, rather preferring to just attempt to ridicule. Hardly surprising that anyone who might come here with views that are different to your own should find any desire to remain...

You say that what was said to me concerning my wife's pregnancy and Lady Di's death was either random chance or a lucky guess and claim that it means the case is closed? Sorry, not quite convincing enough to me who experienced such events as well as so many others...
 
?

Concerning evidence:
In the case of Jacqueline Pool, the medium hit 129 out of 130 details of the murder, and you want to counter-argument this by saying that it was random chance?


Calling BS. You're making a bare assertion here.
 
BTW, the image you used suits you guys very nicely. :) Maybe you should hang it up above your computer table...
 
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2. In the case of Jacqueline Pool, the medium hit 129 out of 130 details of the murder, and you want to counter-argument this by saying that it was random chance?

How was it established that the murder had '130 details'? Where can we see a list of the 'details'? What about the other, uncounted, details?
 
Charles, I must confess. For many years I have been projecting my mental powers upon you from a distance. These account for all the phenomena you have been experiencing. I believe that my experiment is now at an end, and I will switch them off.

There.

How do you feel?
 
3. Concerning my question about the dual-slit experiment and the wave-particle effect brought about by the intent of observation on the part of the observer, have you ever watched a film-documentary called "What the "bleep" do we know?" It is quantum-physicists who point this out, not me.


Pseudo documentary would be a more correct term for that film. I'd be very cautious to take much of anything from that movie as actual science, as it's all mixed up with new age nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Bleep_Do_We_Know!?#Academic_reaction
 

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