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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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I also want to add that it seems clear that Stephanoni thought she had 200+ picograms of material after splitting it for testing for blood with the rest for the DNA test. That is why she went the standard 28 cycles rather than the recomended 34. If it is LCN DNA the standard 28 cycles will just not give results that are accurate or will not even show any result (as in this case).

In my opinion this is probably due to the fact that the material she pulled out of that giant crack in the knife did not consist of DNA at all. She thought she had enough if it was DNA, but it was not.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Please present evidence of 1, that the police contaminated the knife, something you are 100% certain of.
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I am 100% certain only that MK died in her room due neck wounds.
I am 100% certain only that AK and RS and Guede are serving time in jail.
I am 100% certain that AK and MK shared the house together before AK moved in with RS and MK died.

I only infer that the police deliberately contaminated the knife from the quotes that the police only took one knife from RS's drawer and tested that ignoring all the other knives at both places. I question the police because similar things have happened before. I question the police because the were motivated, at first, to find AK and RS guilty. I question the police because of all the similar things that happened by the hundreds in LA, Oklahoma and NC and miscellaneous other places throughout the USA. I question the police because I do not think highly of city/town police. What is the probability? I don't know, but I would put the probability of police contamination as higher than the prossibility of guilt of AK and RS.

I am almost 100 percent certain the sun will come up tomorrow (rounding off to the nearest decimal place). I am really not 100.0000000% certain of anything.

I am 100% certain that some police in other places have deliberately fabricated evidence.
I am nearly 100% certain that the police picked only one knife from the drawer and tested it. This is 100% suspicious to those of us that have read stories of other police misconduct.
Hearsay is that the knives that AK's old place were not tested.

What are you absolutely certain of in this case?
 
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Justinian2 said:
I only infer that the police deliberately contaminated the knife from the quotes that the police only took one knife from RS's drawer and tested that ignoring all the other knives at both places.
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If the police deliberately contaminated the knife then Dr. Stephanoni wouldn't have had to bother to push the amplification of the electrophoresis machine in her search for DNA, as Rose has stated.

I wish those who think AK and RS are innocent could make up their mind as to why the pair was convicted:

1. Deliberate contamination.
2. Accidential contamination.
3. Corrupt police.
4. Incompetent police.
5. Corrupt prosecution.
6. Incompetent prosecution.
7. Anti-Americanism.
8. Facism.
9. Horny police.
10. Cover up to protect Rudy.
11. Cultural differences.
12. Sexism
 
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Justinian2 said:
I am 100% certain that AK and MK shared the house together before AK moved in with RS and MK died.
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No. AK never "moved in" with RS. They barely knew each other. She didn't even keep clothes in his apartment. Her explaination for going over to her apartment the day after the murder was to shower and get a change of clothes.
 
Alt+F4 said:
If the police deliberately contaminated the knife then Dr. Stephanoni wouldn't have had to bother to push the amplification of the electrophoresis machine in her search for DNA, as Rose has stated.

I wish those who think AK and RS are innocent could make up their mind as to why the pair was convicted:

1. Deliberate contamination.
2. Accidential contamination.
3. Corrupt police.
4. Incompetent police.
5. Corrupt prosecution.
6. Incompetent prosecution.
7. Anti-Americanism.
8. Facism.
9. Horny police.
10. Cover up to protect Rudy.
11. Cultural differences.
12. Sexism
Click to expand...

I think the people that post here do not have as much of a group identity as is shown at certain other places. Differences of opinion on some of the details are common, just as I disagreed with Mary_H and halkides earlier today. Even among those here that believe in guilt there are differences, Michiavelli is one example that seems to me to go a different direction on certain issues. I thought your inclusion of number 9 was amusing, not sure about number 12, has that been claimed here?
 
RoseMontague said:
I think the people that post here do not have as much of a group identity as is shown at certain other places. Differences of opinion on some of the details are common, just as I disagreed with Mary_H and halkides earlier today. Even among those here that believe in guilt there are differences, Michiavelli is one example that seems to me to go a different direction on certain issues. I thought your inclusion of number 9 was amusing, not sure about number 12, has that been claimed here?
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As for sexism and horny cops being the cause of AK's conviction, well you'll have to ask Mary H. about that.

I can understand differences of opinion but I would think that if it's so obvious that they are innocent then the reason(s) for their wrongful conviction would be, at least, somewhat obvious too.
 
loverofzion said:
Come again?
Shoe size can increase from 42 to 46 size because of a large toe??
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It certainly can increase, but that would be on the extreme end of the scale. 42 to 46 corresponds to 8.5 to 11.5 in the U.S. (8 to 11 in the U.K.), or about three sizes, American. Using my own example of "Celtic Toe" (I prefer that to Morton's Toe, which sounds so dull and clinical. :p), I normally have have to buy my shoes about one size larger, very rarely two. But I need to make sure my shoes fit loosely for other, only semi-related reasons. If half sizes are available that range generally falls into one to one and a half. All this depends on shoe style and manufacturer, of course.

This is due to second toes which are nearly half an inch longer than my big toes. Or almost 12 mm. That's a fair amount even by "Celtic Toe" standards.

I can see how three (or four, European) sizes difference due to a long toe might be possible, but it is, if you'll excuse the expression, a stretch.
 
loverofzion said:
How do you know it is so?
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Now either you too have a very short memory or you are deliberately trying to waste my time, because I corrected you on this point earlier and gave you the citation earlier.

Fortunately I know this one off by heart because Fulcanelli, oddly enough, had exactly the same poor memory you do and needed frequent reminders. Massei page 348.
 
RoseMontague said:
I think the people that post here do not have as much of a group identity as is shown at certain other places. Differences of opinion on some of the details are common, just as I disagreed with Mary_H and halkides earlier today. Even among those here that believe in guilt there are differences, Michiavelli is one example that seems to me to go a different direction on certain issues. I thought your inclusion of number 9 was amusing, not sure about number 12, has that been claimed here?
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Not to mention most of the points Alt listed are not mutually exclusive. The ones I have highlighted can certainly coexist. As usual with this case, context is what matters.

1. Deliberate contamination.2. Accidential contamination.
3. Corrupt police.4. Incompetent police.5. Corrupt prosecution.6. Incompetent prosecution.7. Anti-Americanism.
8. Facism.
9. Horny police.
10. Cover up to protect Rudy.
11. Cultural differences.
12. Sexism

The rest of the points, I believe, are peripheral subjects that have only been argued by one or two members (some seem to have been thrown into the list without merit though). But I don't think anyone has argued, nor can you make an argument, that any one or two of the above points can be argued as the sole reason Amanda and Raf were wrongfully convicted. As far as "accidental" vs "deliberate" contamination, that is something that can only be theorized. But since we know Stefanoni was dishonest before (such as claiming that no blood tests were performed on the footprints when in fact they were), then assuming she was dishonest with how the results of the DNA were attained is not a stretch either.
 
Alt+F4 said:
As for sexism and horny cops being the cause of AK's conviction, well you'll have to ask Mary H. about that.

I can understand differences of opinion but I would think that if it's so obvious that they are innocent then the reason(s) for their wrongful conviction would be, at least, somewhat obvious too.
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I didn't see rail-roaded or Cap'n Ahab reasoning listed but that would include several of the ones you have delineated, I am certain.
 
Alt+F4 said:
If the police deliberately contaminated the knife then Dr. Stephanoni wouldn't have had to bother to push the amplification of the electrophoresis machine in her search for DNA, as Rose has stated.

I wish those who think AK and RS are innocent could make up their mind as to why the pair was convicted:

1. Deliberate contamination.
2. Accidental contamination.
3. Corrupt police.
4. Incompetent police.
5. Corrupt prosecution.
6. Incompetent prosecution.
7. Anti-Americanism.
8. Fascism.
9. Horny police.
10. Cover up to protect Rudy.
11. Cultural differences.
12. Sexism
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I think that's a pretty good list.

I think the reason for conviction is 99.9% likely to be one or more on that list.

The most likely? Probably #2.

I think that incompetent forensic lab should be in the list because #2 would not have happened in a totally competent/state of the art lab and police procedures. Of course, if it did happen in such a lab, then the appeal wouldn't be as hopeful.
 
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Withnail1969 said:
quadraginta said:
<snip>

 Mary_H might want to powwow with Withnail1969, since there seems to be some discrepancy about the knife supply at the girls' place. Just a little while ago we were given this assurance.

Somebody's chasing the wrong rabbit. :)
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I've seen a photograph of the knives at the girls' place in which there seemed to be a plethora of sharp-looking potential murder weapons in a variety of sizes.
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I wasn't questioning your veracity, just pointing out that Mary_H seemed to have unearthed a difference of opinion elsewhere.

I certainly have no intention of suggesting that Sollecito's statements are more reliable than your research.
 
Mary_H said:
They found the larger knife on November 6th. On November 9th, Judge Claudia Matteini said the murder had been committed with a small knife. I'm not sure the autopsy was even finalized by that time.

The fact is, we don't know why they went looking for a larger knife on November 6th. With the information we have, it's almost inexplicable.
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Rudy was known to have used a larger knife in his previous escapades. However that only explains it if the police had recognised Rudy's MO by that point, were protecting Rudy and were thus already looking for innocent people to frame for his crime.
 
Alt+F4 said:
If the police deliberately contaminated the knife then Dr. Stephanoni wouldn't have had to bother to push the amplification of the electrophoresis machine in her search for DNA, as Rose has stated.

I wish those who think AK and RS are innocent could make up their mind as to why the pair was convicted:

1. Deliberate contamination.
2. Accidential contamination.
3. Corrupt police.
4. Incompetent police.
5. Corrupt prosecution.
6. Incompetent prosecution.
7. Anti-Americanism.
8. Facism.
9. Horny police.
10. Cover up to protect Rudy.
11. Cultural differences.
12. Sexism
Click to expand...


You left out cartwheels. I have it on good authority. The real deal why she was falsely convicted. You can see all the irrefutable proof right here.

Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

:rolleyes:
 
Alt+F4 said:
I think it's totally ridiculous to believe that Rudy was so concerned about cleaning up yet goes back into the bedroom, then leaves bloody footprints as he heads out the front door.

So how is it that he leaves the bloody bedroom the first time with no blood on the bottom of his shoes, but the second time the bottom of his shoes does have blood on them?
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Ah, the good old argument from incredulity. If you express enough uninformed incredulity, it shifts the burden of proof! Apparently.

How's this: Rudy didn't want blood on his clothes because it would make it obvious he had just murdered someone. So he went to the bathroom and washed blood off his clothes. Then he went back to the bedroom to steal and stepped in some blood, however he didn't care about that because a few steps later he was no longer leaving bloody footprints so it wasn't going to get him sprung as he walked away. Later he disposed of those shoes anyway.

As for the footprint on the bathmat, ok, let's assume it is Rudy's. How did he get blood on the bottom of his naked foot to begin with? It's been suggested that he stepped on a bloody towel that was on top of the bathmat. Well if that was the case the footprint would have been even more pronounced on the bloody towel. Was a bloody footprint found on any of the towels?
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Maybe he had a wet and bloody sock after washing blood off his trousers, so he took his sock off and put his foot down?

I swear we've had this exact same conversation before.

We seem to have this pattern where rather than present any real evidence of guilt at all, you just pick some random part of the Lone Wolf narrative and express uninformed incredulity about it.
 
AMANDA KNOX GUILTY - ALL BECAUSE OF A CARTWHEEL

I believe that this was the original post that people have been discussing ever since. Hundreds of pages and thousands of contributions and one would be forgiven for thinking that they have agreed upon nothing.

However, I think that we can all now agree that Amanda Knox was found guilty and it certainly wasn't because of a cartwheel!

Can we all pack up now and go home?
 
Fulcanelli said:
Maybe, just like submarines often dive beyond their designed depth. We call that good engineering.
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Unless the sub collapses and innocent people die, in which case we call it culpable stupidity on the part of the submarine operator, whose job it is to know better than to do that.
 
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