Is there an "atheist perspective"?

[Marduk]

Atheists then?

people who don't believe in God/s
atheists
agnostics
50% of buddhists
most young children

are you obsessed with atheism christian
maybe you should try it, then you'd be in a position to generalise about your own belief, but you can't and don't speak for others,
you've said continuously that this is a mental exercise
I'm agreeing more and more
its totally mental.
Atheists unlike their theist counterparts are less like each other than any other group. With theism you buy into a belief system which causes you to have lots in common with others who share it, that can not be said of atheism, the only data I have ever seen that you could say of atheists is that in general they are better educated and more intelligent than theists.
Theism seems to be a belief engendered by a lack of understanding of the real world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps
and I count myself in that as I am not an atheist either
of course there are exceptions

 

[Christian]

It certainly seems that way to me, that what christian is demonstrating is an inability to comprehend any viewpoint but his own and a sparkling inability to admit he could be wrong on anything at all, take his belief that I claimed something about atheists, he had made his mind up that I had said that and so clearly hadn't paid any attention to my posts at all, now we all know he got that wrong, I only posted three times when he started claiming I was saying something I wasn't, here they all are







fail

I don't think you have read all my posts. I have not claimed I'm right. I have expressed many times, I'm probably wrong. I have stated that I don't want to discard the hypothesis a priori because it is not correct to do so.

 

[devnull]

people who don't believe in God/s
atheists
agnostics
50% of buddhists

Well, no, because agnostics ARE atheists (at least, I havent met or hear of a theistic agnostic) and buddhists are categorised separately.

 

[FattyCatty]

Wow, I haven't followed the other thread, but so far in this thread Christian has not insulted, denigrated, or otherwise indicated that he carries a prejudice against atheists. I appreciate that you all may have reason for your suspicion, but this thread comes across as a pile up on him.

It's an interesting topic for discussion, so I'd be interested in hearing more about the actual facts as they are known regarding atheists worldview - actually I'm thinking it sounds more like personality traits. I appreciate that it's an effect that is nested under the larger cultural norms that someone lives in.

I agree with this. It seems there are some traits of atheists in the U.S. and it would be interesting to see if they carry over to other cultures.

Uh no
youre reading the data wrong
[qimg]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/belmarduk/0china_pie_chart.jpg[/qimg]

are you denying that almost 50% of chinese are non theists ?
thats the majority group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority

I don't think you ever provided a source for your information, did you? There are some who disagree with your numbers or interpretation.

For decades, the Chinese people have been subjected to atheist indoctrination through the educational system," Yang said. "From kindergarten to college, the curricular and extracurricular activities were designed to advance scientific education, which includes getting rid of beliefs in supernatural beings and forces. Today there are millions of people who participate in groups or attend schools where this is still taught or emphasized. However, we found that real atheists remain a minority in China." purdue.edu/newsroom/research/2010/100726T-YangChina.html

This is from the Director of Purdue's Center on Religion and Chinese Society. He says the number of atheists is 15% and that 85% "hold some religious belief or practice some kind of religion." He is obviously not grouping or counting the way you are.

I read non-religious. You are equating non-religious with atheist. This is not correct.

See above, someone agrees with you.

 

[Christian]

people who don't believe in God/s
atheists
agnostics
50% of buddhists

No, this is incorrect. The buddhist who don't believe in deities are atheists, by definition. And as I pointed out, I don't think it is warranted that you include in the group agnostics unless you can support that the data includes them.

 

[Christian]

I agree with this. It seems there are some traits of atheists in the U.S. and it would be interesting to see if they carry over to other cultures.

I don't think you ever provided a source for your information, did you? There are some who disagree with your numbers or interpretation.This is from the Director of Purdue's Center on Religion and Chinese Society. He says the number of atheists is 15% and that 85% "hold some religious belief or practice some kind of religion." He is obviously not grouping or counting the way you are.

See above, someone agrees with you.

Thank you. Thank you.

 

[D'rok]

No, this is incorrect. The buddhist who don't believe in deities are atheists, by definition. And as I pointed out, I don't think it is warranted that you include in the group agnostics unless you can support that the data includes them.

What gods do agnostics believe in?

 

[D'rok]

I am forced to chose what I will answer to.

I noticed that. After a quick skim, I see the same sort of selectivity in your other thread.

Hmmm...

 

[Marduk]

No, this is incorrect. The buddhist who don't believe in deities are atheists, by definition. And as I pointed out, I don't think it is warranted that you include in the group agnostics unless you can support that the data includes them.

ok, wasting my time, you are redefining agnostics now as believing in Gods

how about we redefine theists as only those who go to church and pray regularly

how about we redefine theists as atheists unless they believe in your god

how about we redefine El salvador catholics as rapidly declining as the education level increases which only leaves those believers over the age of 50 as true christians with the rest as wannabe atheists

 

[Sun Countess]

I have put forth ideas, but they are not acknowledge. I will do it again. Now, please remember these are the traits that I would speculate would come out of a survey.

Atheist are more likely to be more contrarian than the general population, on average.
Atheist are more likely to be more skeptical than the general population, on average.
Atheist are more likely not to be believe in spirituality than the general population, on average.
Atheist are more likely to be independent thinkers than the general population, on average.
Atheist are more likely to have higher IQ's than the general population, on average.
Atheist are more likely to be tolerant of minorities than the general population, on average.
Atheist are more likely to be more respectful of the law than the general population, on average.

Even if there are some common traits across atheists raised in a similar culture, you haven't stated how any of them are related to their atheism.

*Does atheism lead someone to be more contrarian?
*Does atheism lead someone to be a more independent thinker?
*Does atheism allow one to do better on IQ tests?
*Does atheism lead someone to be more tolerant of minorities?
etc. etc.

You may find some correlations, that's true, but by talkng about an "atheist perspective, you're implying that the common traits stem from "something in their brains" that cause people to become atheist in the first place. But you're ignoring the fact that no one thing causes people to become atheist. We're all born that way, and we grow up with a wide range of religious exposure.

So maybe, left-handed people acquire a common appreciation for good quality pens. A good survey might uncover this. I hope, you can see what I'm trying to say.

I hate to say, but that would be a pretty pathetic survey. You do know that not everybody writes left-to-right?

 

[Christian]

What gods do agnostics believe in?

I was thinking to place agnostics in the category of "don't know" different from the atheist affirmative position. But, technically speaking, agnostics are atheists too.

 

[devnull]

this thread has reached such a level of craptitude that I will no longer be reading it.

thank you

 

[D'rok]

I was thinking to place agnostics in the category of "don't know" different from the atheist affirmative position. But, technically speaking, agnostics are atheists too.

The affirmative position of atheists is only in regards to belief, not knowledge. Atheists affirm their disbelief. It is a rare atheist who claims to have positive knowledge that gods do not exist.

Are you getting how difficult it may be to pigeonhole atheists?

 

[FattyCatty]

What gods do agnostics believe in?

Agnostics neither believe nor disbelieve. They don't know. So how can they be atheists, who know they disbelieve (or believe in no god, whichever)?

 

[Marduk]

Agnostics neither believe nor disbelieve. They don't know. So how can they be atheists, who know they disbelieve (or believe in no god, whichever)?

You too, seem to be placing atheists at the top of your argument
we were actually talking about "non theists"
so straw man arguments about agnostics being atheists arent valid
thanks

 

[D'rok]

Agnostics neither believe nor disbelieve. They don't know. So how can they be atheists, who know they disbelieve (or believe in no god, whichever)?

Isn't about time that we make this issue a sticky?

Knowledge and belief are not the same thing. Agnostics lack knowledge and they lack belief, but they self-identify with their lack of knowledge rather than their lack of belief.

Show me an agnostic that believes in gods.

 

[FattyCatty]

You too, seem to be placing atheists at the top of your argument
we were actually talking about "non theists"
so straw man arguments about agnostics being atheists arent valid
thanks

I was responding to a question about what gods agnostics believe in, which was made in response to this:

No, this is incorrect. The buddhist who don't believe in deities are atheists, by definition. And as I pointed out, I don't think it is warranted that you include in the group agnostics unless you can support that the data includes them.

How does that make it a strawman? Or invalid?

Also, you haven't answered my question about the source for the data in your pie chart.

 

[Christian]

The affirmative position of atheists is only in regards to belief, not knowledge. Atheists affirm their disbelief. It is a rare atheist who claims to have positive knowledge that gods do not exist.

I know the distinctions.

Are you getting how difficult it may be to pigeonhole atheists?

I don't think I'm pigeonhole or stereotyping. There is a fine line between valid descriptions of populations and stereotyping. One must understand that a description of a population does not describe the individuals. I have said this over and over again.

All I'm saying, and now I think 4 or 5 posters agree with me that it is a valid line of thought. An interesting hypothesis to test.

 

[Marduk]

I was responding to a question about what gods agnostics believe in, which was made in response to this: How does that make it a strawman? Or invalid?

Also, you haven't answered my question about the source for the data in your pie chart.

Its a straw man because you didn't note that christian said "I don't think it is warranted that you include in the group agnostics unless you can support that the data includes them." even though you highlighted it
the group he is talking about is non theists
see straw. You could have found that out for yourself by actually reading the thread instead of just drive by posting, but whatever, youre not covering yourself in glory, if thats your thing, groovy

the source for the pie chart was Overseas Missionary Fellowship, which is a christian organisation working in China

 

[D'rok]

I know the distinctions.



I don't think I'm pigeonhole or stereotyping. There is a fine line between valid descriptions of populations and stereotyping. One must understand that a description of a population does not describe the individuals. I have said this over and over again.

All I'm saying, and now I think 4 or 5 posters agree with me that it is a valid line of thought. An interesting hypothesis to test.

Regarding the bolded, yes you are.

You are pigeonholing and stereotyping all atheists as culturally American and atheistically Christian, and you are ignoring the nuance that exists even within that narrow group.