'What about building 7'?

[cooperman]

What is its significance?

Yes, you are right. The collapse of wtc7 has no significance whatsoever. NIST was so taken with it's insignificance that it decided to spend lots of money and time investigating it. It is totally insignificant that wtc7 is the only skyscraper to ever fall as a result of fires. There is absolutely no significant effect on fire and building codes there.

 

[cooperman]

NCSTAR 1A Draft (Aug 08)
3.6 Collapse Time

Describes the process used to measure the time it took 18 floors to drop out of view.

They observed 5.4 s with an u'ncertainty of no more than 0.1 s.'
p40-41
NIST then stated that this time was approx. 40% longer than the computed free fall time..

Chandler wanted to have them include instantaneous acceleration, so in their final report they did (nov 08). It showed that the overall time was 40% longer than 'computed freefall time' (same as before, and same as I measured in my video way back when) but gave the instantaneous acceleration for various intervals along the way.
Out of that period of 5.4 s, roughly 2.25 s was approximately at freefall acceleration. This means that it was slower than freefall for about 58% of that portion.

The relevant question is, what specifically makes this brief period of freefall so important? After all, neither of the towers collapsed at freefall acceleration, so truthers don't dwell on that fact when examining them.

It seems rather arbitrary to suddenly seize on this aspect of WTC 7's collapse as particularly important. It cannot be explained by controlled demolition, which couldn't produce this kind of effect in the first place, and certainly not without loud explosions, which were not evident.

So keep flogging this dead horse already, it doesn't help the truther cause, except with the ignorant.

Thankyou for confirming that.

 

[Dave Rogers]

No it isn't, and it's only as good as its inputs.

Yes, computer modelling is evidence. We can argue all day about how good evidence it is, but to deny that it's evidence at all is simply dishonest.

But I'm sure you won't admit it because it can fabricate support for a predetermined conclusion.

Sorry, you're blatantly pretending that evidence against your position doesn't exist, yet you say I'm the denialist?



Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

Yes, you are right. The collapse of wtc7 has no significance whatsoever. NIST was so taken with it's insignificance that it decided to spend lots of money and time investigating it. It is totally insignificant that wtc7 is the only skyscraper to ever fall as a result of fires. There is absolutely no significant effect on fire and building codes there.

So, you're claiming that the significance of the collapse of WTC7 is a better appreciation of how fire can affect the structural stability of a steel-framed building, because fire was the primary cause of its collapse?

Thank you. It takes a big man to admit he's been wrong for six years.

Dave

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I'm just curious what an engineering investigation of a collapse has to to do with the motives or lack thereof behind what happened to the building...

 

[ProBonoShill]

I'm just curious what an engineering investigation of a collapse has to to do with the motives or lack thereof behind what happened to the building...

Didn't you know, everyone at the NIST was in on it, along with thousands of other people.

You must've missed the memo.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Yes, you are right. The collapse of wtc7 has no significance whatsoever. NIST was so taken with it's insignificance that it decided to spend lots of money and time investigating it. It is totally insignificant that wtc7 is the only skyscraper to ever fall as a result of fires. There is absolutely no significant effect on fire and building codes there.

I hope that correct answer wasn't just an accident of your attempt to be snarky.

But let's look at the chain of posts that led you here...

But most truthers assume that the general public doesn't even know that WTC7 collapsed that day.

Most people do not know that wtc7 collapsed that day. Even the ones that do, don't understand the significance.

What is its significance?

Yes, you are right. The collapse of wtc7 has no significance whatsoever. NIST was so taken with it's insignificance that it decided to spend lots of money and time investigating it. It is totally insignificant that wtc7 is the only skyscraper to ever fall as a result of fires. There is absolutely no significant effect on fire and building codes there.

OK. Your response, while correct, is actually kind of weird in context. You seem to be implying that truthers attempt to raise awareness of WTC7's collapse because it has significance for building and fire codes. I have not found that to be true in reality, but I have a couple questions:

1. Why would the general public even care about building and fire codes?
2. Can you point us to any examples of truthers raising awareness of WTC7's collapse because of the reasons you gave above?

 

[cooperman]

I hope that correct answer wasn't just an accident of your attempt to be snarky.

But let's look at the chain of posts that led you here...







OK. Your response, while correct, is actually kind of weird in context. You seem to be implying that truthers attempt to raise awareness of WTC7's collapse because it has significance for building and fire codes. I have not found that to be true in reality, but I have a couple questions:

1. Why would the general public even care about building and fire codes?
2. Can you point us to any examples of truthers raising awareness of WTC7's collapse because of the reasons you gave above?

1. A lot of the public work in tall buildings.

2. I never suggested that truthers do raise awareness of building 7 for that reason. Why do you put meanings on things that I say that I didn't mean? I said that most of the public do not know about 7 or it's signoficance. That is all I said, nothing to do with conspiracy theories, nothing to do with CD, nothing to do with thermite or silverstein or anything else. I made a factual statement in regard to someone elses statement about the wider publicc knowledge about wtc7. Agreed?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

1. A lot of the public work in tall buildings.

Is being aware of events that may effect building and fire codes a necessity for working in tall buildings? No, of course not. So I ask again: Why would the general public even care about building and fire codes?

2. I never suggested that truthers do raise awareness of building 7 for that reason. Why do you put meanings on things that I say that I didn't mean?

I didn't realize you had forgotten the topic of the thread.

 

[JackDaniels]

Ahhh, Appomattox is a near final battle of the civil war?

I am willing to bet good dollars that if Jay Leno went around to 100 people and asked them what that was, about 20 would know.

TAM

One of the last battles, but more importantly it's where Lee surrendered to Grant.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Cooperman, why do you think WTC7 was demolished?

I haven't seen you commit to anything yet, you ask leading questions and you hint andsuggest but you aren't brave enough to say what you think happened and why.

 

[leftysergeant]

And how do you get off calling WTC 7 insignificant? The location for Giuliani's OEM and the regional offices for the CIA, IRS, and FBI has no strategic value?

Not many people would notice it missing, as compared to the towers. It is of strategic value only if you accept an inside job theory, but there simply exists no proof of that. It could easily have been spared impact of the debris through any combination of random events.

 

[Edx]

I said that most of the public do not know about 7 or it's signoficance.

The only "significance" of Building 7 is what truthers pretend it has. Everyone else understands it was just another building that was destroyed by the collapses of the towers. The only real interest is to engineers that want to understand what failed in the building to improve building codes, thats as far as the real significance goes.

 

[BigAl]

1. A lot of the public work in tall buildings.

2. I never suggested that truthers do raise awareness of building 7 for that reason. Why do you put meanings on things that I say that I didn't mean? I said that most of the public do not know about 7 or it's signoficance.

Since you've rule out "conspiracy theories, CD, nothing to do with thermite or silverstein or anything else", what is the significance to you?

Why do you care about WTC7?

 

[RedIbis]

Not many people would notice it missing, as compared to the towers. It is of strategic value only if you accept an inside job theory, but there simply exists no proof of that. It could easily have been spared impact of the debris through any combination of random events.

What does impact have to do with anything?

 

[T.A.M.]

What does impact have to do with anything?

don't play dumb. If the WTC1 Debris had not struck the building, no fire would have been started, and no collapse of WTC7 would have occurred.

TAM

 

[WildCat]

What does impact have to do with anything?

 

[RedIbis]

don't play dumb. If the WTC1 Debris had not struck the building, no fire would have been started, and no collapse of WTC7 would have occurred.

TAM

Yeah, but there's no proof that the fire caused the collapse, only speculation.

 

[ergo]

Anyone who's still asking for the "significance" of the WTC7 collapse, is, as far as I can tell, an idiot. I'm surprised that threads are still being started on the subject. I would suggest that those who understand why a 47-storey steel-framed structure couldn't collapse suddenly, symmetrically, and within seconds of free fall because of some debris damage and lame, isolated fires stop posting in these threads and let the bee dunkers writhe around on their own on this topic. It would be funny to watch.

Seriously, it's a waste of time.

 

[T.A.M.]

Yeah, but there's no proof that the fire caused the collapse, only speculation.

Well the premise of the poster, from which you quoted, and made the comment about significance, was that you don't buy the inside job theory.

So if you do not buy the inside job (aka CD) theory, then if not fire, what the hell else caused the collapse?

TAM