'What about building 7'?

[twinstead]

2.25 seconds still doesn't prove that WTC7 was CDed. No way in hell can you Truthers ever prove it!

But they have to at least keep trying; their world view depends on it.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

But they have to at least keep trying; their world view depends on it.

In the immortal words of Yoda: "Do or do not. There is no try.".

Their world view sux big time, maybe if they would combine their talents to making movies, they'd be making big bucks for having an imaginative mind. George Lucas would probably keep on going with the Star Wars franchise if the Truthers would give him some insight on strange & very imaginative weapons.

 

[BigAl]

Now you're just babbling incoherently. Do people still learn about Ford's Theater? Appomattox?

And how do you get off calling WTC 7 insignificant? The location for Giuliani's OEM and the regional offices for the CIA, IRS, and FBI has no strategic value?

He didn't say that and what he did say is correct.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6423529#post6423529

 

[RedIbis]

He didn't say that and what he did say is correct.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6423529#post6423529

He didn't? Go back and read it again.

 

[twinstead]

No it isn't, and it's only as good as its inputs. But I'm sure you won't admit it because it can fabricate support for a predetermined conclusion.

Missed this gem. You owe me one irony meter, red. You just destroyed mine.

 

[BigAl]

Strange how we have a multitude of firefighter quotes regarding WTC 7 opining that it was a virtual towering inferno, but only Deputy Chief Peter Hayden was making hay out of an observed bulge.

From my research, through a pile of interviews, Hayden was the only one talking about this mysterious bulge.

Because Hayden had the transit.

If the FDNY felt the bulge was so dramatic and compelling as you seem to think, why weren't the firefighters talking about it?

Because the bugle was measured in inches or a couple feet and invisible unless viewed through a surveyor's instrument.

Like I said earlier, the bulge appeared to a concern only to Deputy Chief Peter Hayden within the FDNY. The firefighters on the scene were more drawn to the smoke and the fact that they were unable to fight the fires.

Your point?

And Hayden's bulge in the southwest corner, was the farthest location from column 79 in the northeast corner.

MM

And the bulge indicated the building was doomed.

 

[DGM]

You called my first wording a lie. You have failed to point it out.

I don't see haw my second post is any different to the first.

Where is the lie?

NCSTAR 1-9 Vol 2 Chapter 12, 12.5.3

 

[Miragememories]

Because Hayden had the transit.

Because the bugle was measured in inches or a couple feet and invisible unless viewed through a surveyor's instrument.

There was a time when at least a few here would provide a coherent reply.

You don't even care what you write do you Al?

Any lie will do.

MM

 

[tfk]

Computer modeling isn't evidence...

It would appear that every engineer who signs his name to a computer modeled & verified airplane design, every aerospace company who then dumps billions of dollars into building the plane & every test pilot who climbs into the cockpit disagrees with you.

Vehemently.

And this applies to just about every bridge, car, boat, & building built in the last 20 years.

The entire (competent) engineering community disagrees with you.

What do you do for a living?


tom

 

[Grizzly Bear]

The idea was pretty simple. They wantrd to hit a symbol of America's economic power, within the heart of America's economic center (near Wall Street). Guelliani may all and well had an office inside WTC 7, but we're then discussing a city mayor, not the president of the United States. I think that speaks volumes for all the people who spout lies about WTC 7 being politically significant. I'll say, our alleged perps must be remarkably stupid for attacking a building that had the opposite political value to attack relative to the twin towers.

@ Red
I've yet to see any evidence to suggest that the model's have been faked. Unless I see such evidence the models are perfectly acceptable providing one understands their limitations. As for your statement that "models aren't evidence" I suggest you also relay that message to AE911truth, who have relied on such models in their counterarguments against the NIST report, whether wrong or not

 

[funk de fino]

Now you're just babbling incoherently. Do people still learn about Ford's Theater? Appomattox?

And how do you get off calling WTC 7 insignificant? The location for Giuliani's OEM and the regional offices for the CIA, IRS, and FBI has no strategic value?

It was insignificant thing compared to the attacks and deaths. No-one died. A building fell becase it caught fire. WOW!

 

[T.A.M.]

And yet it took an amateur's video to get this impeccable team of scientists to revise their account.

Once again, I am waiting for you or Cooperman to provide proof that NIST revised their count BECAUSE Chandler told them.

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

Now you're just babbling incoherently. Do people still learn about Ford's Theater? Appomattox?

And how do you get off calling WTC 7 insignificant? The location for Giuliani's OEM and the regional offices for the CIA, IRS, and FBI has no strategic value?

Ok Red, if you are going to play it like MM, and Cooperman, then I guess the gloves are off. I have tried to be polite with you, as you have been the same with me. I have done this despite others here egging me not to.

Oh, so now the argument has changed from "sekrit documents existed and had to be destroyed", to "REGIONAL Offices of Federal Agencies were there and had to be destroyed".

What next?

TAM

Edit: Oh, and by the way, what the hell is "Appomattox"?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Most people do not know that wtc7 collapsed that day. Even the ones that do, don't understand the significance.

I was watching some TV footage on youtube the other day and one reporter said, just after building 7 collapsed, that "a small building on the site has also now collapsed". I don't know in which universe a 47 storey building is considered small.

What is the significance? I can't get any 'truther' to tell me!

 

[Thunder]

its almost 2011. I wonder if this thread wil help bring about the new and improved investigaton?

 

[alienentity]

'A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt.' Chief Daniel Nigro

'..Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World Trade Center, which we did.'

Bulge or no bulge, what did FDNY think on the day? Very clear - they understood the building was in peril.

It is only the extreme revisionist bias of 9/11 Truthers which is fighting against this very simple and obvious conclusion. Luckily, 9/11 Truthers are neither fire experts nor do they have other responsibilities to society - they are mainly intellectual vandals who attack the integrity of the very people whose lives were lost and endangered on 9/11 - the First Responders such as those quoted above.

 

[Clarrisani]

I can add a whole heap of quotes from fire fighters that observed the damage and severity of fire to the building and deemed the building to be unstable. For example:

"We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors." –FDNY Lieutenant Robert LaRocca

"Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came down." –FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn

"The major concern at that time was number Seven, building number Seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell, it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the facade on Vesey Street. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing." –FDNY Chief Frank Fellini

If you want more evidence, just say the word. I have a heap of them.

 

[T.A.M.]

Ahhh, Appomattox is a near final battle of the civil war?

I am willing to bet good dollars that if Jay Leno went around to 100 people and asked them what that was, about 20 would know.

TAM

 

[alienentity]

NIST included it in their final report after a high school teacher pointed it out to them

NCSTAR 1A Draft (Aug 08)
3.6 Collapse Time

Describes the process used to measure the time it took 18 floors to drop out of view.

They observed 5.4 s with an u'ncertainty of no more than 0.1 s.'
p40-41
NIST then stated that this time was approx. 40% longer than the computed free fall time..

Chandler wanted to have them include instantaneous acceleration, so in their final report they did (nov 08). It showed that the overall time was 40% longer than 'computed freefall time' (same as before, and same as I measured in my video way back when) but gave the instantaneous acceleration for various intervals along the way.
Out of that period of 5.4 s, roughly 2.25 s was approximately at freefall acceleration. This means that it was slower than freefall for about 58% of that portion.

The relevant question is, what specifically makes this brief period of freefall so important? After all, neither of the towers collapsed at freefall acceleration, so truthers don't dwell on that fact when examining them.

It seems rather arbitrary to suddenly seize on this aspect of WTC 7's collapse as particularly important. It cannot be explained by controlled demolition, which couldn't produce this kind of effect in the first place, and certainly not without loud explosions, which were not evident.

So keep flogging this dead horse already, it doesn't help the truther cause, except with the ignorant.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Most people do not know that wtc7 collapsed that day. Even the ones that do, don't understand the significance.

What is its significance?