Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RWVBWL]

I would question the "easy game" characterization, however, I know you mean well. From my experience people (guys and girls) are basically the same everywhere, they want to have fun and maybe a little romance while away. Rarely does it turn deadly.

So true, ChristianaHannah, so true...
RWVBWL

 

[Magister]

Thanks RWVBWL !

 

[Draca]

=RWVBWL;642008

PS-The only problem I am having with the "Rudy Guede as a lone wolf" theory is that Miss Kercher's bedroom was too neat, I feel, for the fight that took her life to have occured involving only 1 perpatrator. Heck, from what I have read, there was a glass that still had water in it nearby...

If the bedroom was left neat in certain portions it would be less likely to have remained that way with MORE people added to the bedroom. More people would mean more oportunity to bump things over, stumble and step in blood and track it around the bedroom. This was a hurrendously violent murder that moved from one area of the bedroom to another. There would have been evidence of a 3rd person involved if they had been.

"Absence of Evidence is Evidence of Absence" - Steve Moore.

 

[RWVBWL]

There's no reason to assume that Meredith would have put up a fight. She was confronted by an intruder armed with a knife. All the killer had to do was hold the knife to her throat and self-preservation would have dictated that she become completely passive in the hope that he would not harm an unresisting victim. She had no way of knowing that he would kill her anyway, but trying to fight him would certainly have seemed more dangerous in those frenzied last moments.

The killer could very easily have forced her into her bedroom, slammed her head against the wall and then slit her throat, possibly raping her first (it's not clear to me what the indications are that he molested her after inflicting the fatal wounds). There's no logical requirement for there to have been any kind of struggle, and the guilter mantra that there had to be more than one attacker is so much hot air.

Anyone know what Guede's and Meredith's respective heights and weights are?

Hi Antony,
If I recall correctly,
I have read before that Miss Kercher was trained in martial arts and/or self defense.
And reading in "Angel Face" that Rudy Guede has a slight build and narrow shoulders made me think that she would have indeed put up a much stronger fight with Rudy Guede 1 on 1, possibly even with pocket knife or a switchblade pulled on her...

I too wonder what is Rudy Guede's height and weight in comparrison to Miss Kercher's. Google did not give me anything yet. Anyone else know?
RWVBWL

 

[Draca]

The lamp between the bed and the nightstand was on the floor, unplugged, with the cord wrapped around the stand, which to me suggests it was not working properly. The desk lamp from Amanda's room was found behind Meredith's door. My best guess is that Meredith borrowed it because her lamp wasn't working, it was on her desk, and it got knocked to the floor during the struggle. It ended up inside the arc of the doorway, so it was pushed behind the door, and the plug was pulled from the wall socket, when the door was broken down the next day.

To the best of my knowledge, no forensic tests were performed on the cloth bag.

Charlie do you have a good photo of this lamp? The ones I've seen you can tell her small black lamp is on the floor by the front of her bed but they are too blurry to see the detail of the cord wrapped around base.

Is it correct that the overhead light was not operable?

 

[Antony]

Behaviour to be severely condemned certainly.
But a huge leap from there to murder and sexual assault surely?

It's rather less of a leap than it is for Amanda and Raffaele. The guilter meme is that we somehow accept that the 2 of them turned on one of Amanda's best friends for no sensible reason.

It's not even necessary to believe that Guede intended to kill Meredith; but there's pretty solid evidence that he was in the flat when she was killed and sexually molested - and none at all that there was any 3rd person there.

 

[Danceme]

Anyone know what Guede's and Meredith's respective heights and weights are?

Meredith was 1.64m and between 55 and 57kgs. She wasn't weighed and these were numbers given by Lalli and Introna. Lalli initially put her at 50kgs but changed it later.
Not sure about Rudy.

 

[RWVBWL]

If the bedroom was left neat in certain portions it would be less likely to have remained that way with MORE people added to the bedroom. More people would mean more oportunity to bump things over, stumble and step in blood and track it around the bedroom. This was a hurrendously violent murder that moved from one area of the bedroom to another. There would have been evidence of a 3rd person involved if they had been.

"Absence of Evidence is Evidence of Absence" - Steve Moore.

Hi Draca,
I have been having a browse over on Perugia Shock, and it has been posts such as this from Frank Sfarzo that I am sharing that has made me wonder if someone else was there when Miss Kercher was brutally stabbed to death:

"Is it possible Rudy committed the crime alone?
Let's examine this possibility. First, I have to recall my original assumption that this can hardly be a deliberate crime, because:

-If you want to kill someone with a knife, you make wounds much more serious than the ones found on Meredith. In this case, the carotid artery wasn't even cut. If the killer really wanted her to die, he would have stabbed her again.
-If you want to kill someone, you don't try to save her. But here it seems they tried to stop her bleeding with towels, at least for a short time.

So, this tragic death must have been an accident. The hell of an accident. Meredith was under threat of a knife. While in that position maybe she made a sudden movement in order to free herself, and the knife went straight into her. This always suggested to me that the one holding Meredith, was a different person than the one holding the knife. If he or she were the same person, he could have followed Meredith's movement, and avoided cutting her. But being another person, he or she perceived Meredith's movements with a deadly delay, and couldn't avoid cutting her. This person cut not only Meredith's throat, but Rudy's hand as well--- unless we want to believe Rudy cut himself, or as he says, was injured by a stranger.

So, only in view of the dynamics, this crime could hardly have been committed by one person."

Interesting to consider, which I do and also keep in mind that Rudy Guede has, as reported by Barbie Nadeau, a slight build...
RWVBWL

PS-I'm sure Frank Sfarzo has written more on this subject, but this particular passage has always stuck out to me, so I have noted it...

 

[Draca]

Hi Draca,

Interesting to consider, which I do and also keep in mind that Rudy Guede has, as reported by Barbie Nadeau, a slight build...
RWVBWL

...

Barbie chooses her words for the affect she wants perceived. Rudy has a 'slight' build if slight means tall, fit and athletic.

 

[Dan O.]

8:56pm (20:56) (Meredith’s house) Meredith’s cell phone calls her mother but call is cut off before it is finished.

What I recall about this particular call is that it was never registered on any cellular records but was found only in the phone's memory itself.

The memory of the Sony Ericsson reports 1. 1:11:07 hours of 20:56 to a call attempt to the audience of family ( "home") to nr. 441737553564 attributable to the mother of Meredith Kercher

The phone should have provided more detail on why the call didn't complete but I attribute any lack of information on the competence of the investigators in the case. From here, we can only speculate why the call didn't go through and my guess is that this was just after Meredith left Sophie when she was in a narrow canyon like street with little or no cell coverage.

 

[Antony]

(msg #9424)
I have read before that Miss Kercher was trained in martial arts and/or self defense.
And reading in "Angel Face" that Rudy Guede has a slight build and narrow shoulders made me think that she would have indeed put up a much stronger fight with Rudy Guede 1 on 1, possibly even with pocket knife or a switchblade pulled on her...

Being trained in martial arts is not the same as being prepared to give an account of yourself when suddenly confronted by an armed attacker. Lots of people learn martial arts for exercise or mental discipline without ever thinking of using them in earnest - I've done so myself. Unless Meredith was a habitual street fighter, I wouldn't expect her to think she had the slightest chance against someone already prepared for violence.

As for Guede being "slight build", from photos (such as on injusticeinperugia), he appears taller than the police officers accompanying him. He wouldn't need to be heavily-built to be extremely intimidating, even without a knife in his hand. I wouldn't take him on.

 

[loverofzion]

AK and RS are not logical choices to have used the lamp because there is no trace of them in the bedroom. Amanda's blood was not found in MK's bedroom and the earring theory has no evidence to support it. There also wasn't any clean up conducted in the bedroom. I find the choice to blame two people who have left no signs of themselves in the bedroom the real fantasy.

You are forgetting Sollecito's DNA on Meredith's bra clasp.
And there was evidence in the bathroom and in Filomena's room- Ak's DNA mixed with MK's blood in five different places in the cottage.

As for the earring, Ms. Knox herself brought it up about her pierced ears and bleeding from them. There was in addition the mixed sample- AK and MK- found on a cotton swab in the bathroom.

Not so neat your theory.

 

[RWVBWL]

Source is here.



It links Rudy to the burglary of an occupied home and the use of a knife to threaten others. In the same news article, Rudy is also linked to a burglary where a rock was thrown into an upstairs window to gain entry.

Hi Kestrel and Justinian2,
I am posting this with regards to the discussion you were having earlier.
As I mentioned above, I was reading on Perugia Shock and found this little gem about Christian Tramontano incident with Rudy Guede, as reported by Frank Sfarzo:

"Meet the "monster"
I just finished speaking in some way with Christian T., who I reached in his hometown. It was a difficult way to speak, with someone in the middle. But that's what Christian said. It was a warm night in September, he was sleeping with his Polish girlfriend Monika in his elevated loft bed. Some noise woke him up. He looked down and he saw a black boy searching in their drawers. The guest had entered through a window they had left open and he wasn't aware that someone was sleeping in the room, since the bed was elevated.

Christian realized it was his neighbor, Rudy, who he knew only by sight. He told him to go away. Rudy thought it would be better to leave the house like a gentleman, through the door and not through the window. But the door was defective and he had trouble opening it.
Christian wasn't very hospitable. He even didn't ask him if he needed to use the toilet. He rushed Rudy and yelled at him to go, which was exactly what Rudy was trying to do. At this point, since Christian was insisting, Rudy pulled out a knife and showed it to him.
Christian just told him not to be stupid because he knew who he was and he could tell the police. Rudy said, "But if the door is blocked, how can I go away?"

So, Christian helped him open the door and Rudy went away. Like this. Without raping his girlfriend, without even killing the both of them, even though he was recognized.

Then Christian says he called the police, and they arrived immediately, in just 2 hours. The police said he could come to the station the next day and report the intruder. But Christian let it go. It must not have been a very frightening experience for him and his girlfriend if they didn't even have the time to file a suit.
Naturally, when three months later he saw that the same uninvited guest was the main suspect in the murder of Meredith Kercher, he took the time to go to the police station and testify.
Is this another megalomaniac or a reliable witness? History will tell us. But this is not a psychiatric case, not a pusher payed by a pre-professional local newspaper, this time. It's just a normal person. Actually, two normal people.

By the way, this episode as confirmed could appear very compromising for Rudy. But if we analyze it, we don't really see the expression of a dangerous nature.
He steals, yes. But who wouldn't steal if abandoned by family and by society? He enters people's houses, he carries a knife, yes. Just like he allegedly did that night at the cottage.
But he didn't use the knife except to leave the place.
Actually he should have used it. He should have stabbed Christian and Monika, because they caught him stealing and they recognized him. He should have eliminated these witnesses. But he didn't.
Why, in the same situation, should he have eliminated the witness, Meredith, who caught him stealing from her drawers?
Christian and Monika saw a thief that night, for sure. But not a murderer."

Link here:
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008/05/monster-in-my-bedroom.html

Well, this answers my question of how Rudy Guede, whom Christian Tramontano recognised as a neighbor burglarizing his apartment, got out with the door locked.
Christian actually opened the door and let Rudy out! Simply amazing, is what I think...
RWVBWL

 

[loverofzion]

Being trained in martial arts is not the same as being prepared to give an account of yourself when suddenly confronted by an armed attacker. Lots of people learn martial arts for exercise or mental discipline without ever thinking of using them in earnest - I've done so myself. Unless Meredith was a habitual street fighter, I wouldn't expect her to think she had the slightest chance against someone already prepared for violence.

As for Guede being "slight build", from photos (such as on injusticeinperugia), he appears taller than the police officers accompanying him. He wouldn't need to be heavily-built to be extremely intimidating, even without a knife in his hand. I wouldn't take him on.

Nor expect her to think she had the slightest chance against THREE attackers.

 

[loverofzion]

I have read both the facts and the opinions of both the defense and prosecution experts. There are many knives that could cause all 3 major wounds, the large kitchen utensil not among those, alas.

No Rose again you are wrong.
The kitchen knife with Amanda's DNA on the handle and Meredith's blood traces on the blade was one knife which was used to make the larger wounds on Meredith's neck.
Then there was a smaller knife, much like some of those in Sollecito's possession, which caused the smaller wounds.

Check the Massei report, or cite your sources that one knife caused all the wounds.

Without that your lone wolf case falls apart.

 

[RWVBWL]

You are forgetting Sollecito's DNA on Meredith's bra clasp.
And there was evidence in the bathroom and in Filomena's room- Ak's DNA mixed with MK's blood in five different places in the cottage.

As for the earring, Ms. Knox herself brought it up about her pierced ears and bleeding from them. There was in addition the mixed sample- AK and MK- found on a cotton swab in the bathroom.

Not so neat your theory.

Hi loverofzion,
I don't know if you are a guy, but if so, come over to my house sometime, use my sink in my bathroom and purposely cut yourself while shaving,
don't stop or wipe up the drops and I betcha that MY DNA and your blood will be mixed in however many spots that fell as you bleed...
RWVBWL

 

[Dan O.]

Charlie do you have a good photo of this lamp? The ones I've seen you can tell her small black lamp is on the floor by the front of her bed but they are too blurry to see the detail of the cord wrapped around base.

Is it correct that the overhead light was not operable?

I don't have a good photo of the lamp but a cord coming from the lamp is clearly plugged into the plug strip under the bed. Charlie, could you put up an enhanced image of Meredith's lamp. The Spheron camera has a good shot but it's in the shadows. I'd also like to see that blood stain on the floor in front of the lamp. This is either where Meredith stumbles out of the bed after the first attack or where Rudy kneels on the floor when searching the purse. The perspective of the video made it look like this was under the head of the bed and therefore quite confusing.

Meredith's overhead light was working fine.

The light in Amanda's room was broken.

 

[loverofzion]

I don't think so. Yours is about as fantastical as it gets.

Why do you think that?

 

[loverofzion]

Hi loverofzion,
I don't know if you are a guy, but if so, come over to my house sometime, use my sink in my bathroom and purposely cut yourself while shaving,
don't stop or wipe up the drops and I betcha that MY DNA and your blood will be mixed in however many spots that fell as you bleed...
RWVBWL

Yeah but there were traces of Meredith's blood mixed with Amanda's DNA in five different places in the cottage.
Do you usually walk from room to room while you're bleeding?

 

[Antony]

Meredith was 1.64m and between 55 and 57kgs. She wasn't weighed and these were numbers given by Lalli and Introna. Lalli initially put her at 50kgs but changed it later.
Not sure about Rudy.

Thanks for the information. That's 5'5" and 125 lbs (under 9 stone in English money). From photos, Guede seems well over 6 ft and, slight build or not, hardly underfed. I don't think there's much more to be said.