Merged Applicability of Bazant's model to the real world

[femr2]

It is alluded to in the FAQ ( Dec '07 supplement)

There is a far cry between what Tony suggested...

The NIST report claims a large number of the trusses disconnected, but not all.

...and what you have quoted...

failure of some seated connections

the vast majority of the connections remained intact

Tony would appear to be *bowing* the truth somewhat, don't you thunk.

 

[ergo]

Maybe, but I just quoted from the FAQ. I didn't do much of a search for the relevant references in the NIST report.

We also know NIST contradicts itself on other occasions.

 

[DGM]

Maybe, but I just quoted from the FAQ. I didn't do much of a search for the relevant references in the NIST report.

We also know NIST contradicts itself on other occasions.

Keep looking and believing this, it'll help you support your belief.

 

[ergo]

Well, we know why NIST would need "the vast majority" of trusses to remain connected, which is probably why they use the term "vast majority", right? And that was in response to a criticism that had already been fielded about their model. It's very much like the way they hedge about free fall when they need to, but then speak of "essentially in free fall" at other times. Or the complete absence of mention of reinforced concrete in the floors or concrete encasement of steel members, which appears in some earlier reports.

Here's a contradictory quote from the 1-6C which barely even makes sense:

Floor/wall disconnections occurred by the truss walking off their seats after failure of all horizontal connections between the floor and the exterior wall, or by the vertical shear failure of truss seat, as its capacity was reduced by heat.

basically saying that: "floor/wall disconnections occurred after failure of floor/wall connections occurred" -

 

[Newtons Bit]

Well, we know why NIST would need "the vast majority" of trusses to remain connected, which is probably why they use the term "vast majority", right? And that was in response to a criticism that had already been fielded about their model. It's very much like the way they hedge about free fall when they need to, but then speak of "essentially in free fall" at other times. Or the complete absence of mention of reinforced concrete in the floors or concrete encasement of steel members, which appears in some earlier reports.

Here's a contradictory quote from the 1-6C which barely even makes sense:




basically saying that: "floor/wall disconnections occurred after failure of floor/wall connections occurred" -

No it's not. It's explaining the mechanism that caused the disconnect. One is from a vertical overload, the other is due to thermal expansion.

 

[ergo]

Where does it indicate that it's talking about vertical overload?

and "...after failure of all horizontal connections between the floor and the exterior wall..."

 

[Newtons Bit]

Where does it indicate that it's talking about vertical overload?

and "...after failure of all horizontal connections between the floor and the exterior wall..."

Floor/wall disconnections occurred by the truss walking off their seats after failure of all horizontal connections between the floor and the exterior wall, or by the vertical shear failure of truss seat, as its capacity was reduced by heat.

There's two different failure modes there. That hilited "or" statement is very important in the english language.

The bolded statement shows that the connection was overloaded based on it's new capacity.

 

[ergo]

The bolded statement shows that the connection was overloaded based on it's new capacity.

Yes, by heat. Not by heat, and/or vertical overload.

But while you're in interpretive mode, can you please translate this for us:

Floor/wall disconnections occurred by the truss walking off their seats after failure of all horizontal connections between the floor and the exterior wall

? Thanks.

 

[Dave Rogers]

But while you're in interpretive mode, can you please translate this for us:

First, just the horizontal connections failed. Then, the trusses walked off their seats. That disconnected the floors from the walls.

Seems pretty obvious.

Dave

 

[ergo]

Okay, so what are the "horizontal connections"? That is, what is the difference between "horizontal connections" and floor-to-wall connections?

 

[Newtons Bit]

Okay, so what are the "horizontal connections"? That is, what is the difference between "horizontal connections" and floor-to-wall connections?

There are both horizontal connections and vertical connections.



Can you spot the difference?

 

[tfk]

NIST needs to disconnect nine out of ten trusses at the perimeter to get the overload needed for the sag they predict.

Please explain what you mean by this.


tom

 

[ergo]

There are both horizontal connections and vertical connections.


Can you spot the difference?

That's not the question. The question is, what are the "horizontal connections"? And how do they differ from the floor-to-wall connections?

 

[Newtons Bit]

That's not the question. The question is, what are the "horizontal connections"? And how do they differ from the floor-to-wall connections?

Look. At. The. Picture.

 

[ergo]

Just answer the question.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Just answer the question.

It already has been. Stop wasting my time.

 

[ergo]

If any engineers here can answer, in words, what NIST means by:

Floor/wall disconnections occurred ... after failure of all horizontal connections between the floor and the exterior wall

specifically clarifying what difference is being made between the reference to "horizontal connections" vs. the floor-to-wall connections, I would really appreciate.

If you can't, just say so, rather than implying you've "already answered the question" by posting a diagram that you can't even seem to explain. Thanks.

 

[BasqueArch]

Newtons Bit Socratic method vs Basquearch multiple choice method.

If any engineers here can answer, in words, what NIST means by:


specifically clarifying what difference is being made between the reference to "horizontal connections" vs. the floor-to-wall connections, I would really appreciate.

If you can't, just say so, rather than implying you've "already answered the question" by posting a diagram that you can't even seem to explain. Thanks.

Match numbers to letters:
1. Horizontal connections
2. Floor-to-wall vertical connections

A. Angles
B. Bolts, top gusset plates

 

[tfk]

If any engineers here can answer, in words, what NIST means by:

Floor/wall disconnections occurred ... after failure of all horizontal connections between the floor and the exterior wall

specifically clarifying what difference is being made between the reference to "horizontal connections" vs. the floor-to-wall connections, I would really appreciate.

If you can't, just say so, rather than implying you've "already answered the question" by posting a diagram that you can't even seem to explain. Thanks.

Single sentence excerpts are one of truthers' biggest mistakes.

Full context is necessary.

Please provide a reference to the source of this quote in NIST's reports.


tom

 

[Newtons Bit]

If any engineers here can answer, in words, what NIST means by:



specifically clarifying what difference is being made between the reference to "horizontal connections" vs. the floor-to-wall connections, I would really appreciate.

If you can't, just say so, rather than implying you've "already answered the question" by posting a diagram that you can't even seem to explain. Thanks.

I answered it before I posted the picture.