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Scots are 'thick' to hate Thatcher

commandlinegamer

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commandlinegamer
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Apparently so [1] thinks Ivor Tiefenbrun (he seems to have now distanced himself now from those specific remarks), entrepreneur behind the Linn hi-fi company, and prospective (though not any more) Conservative candidate for next years Holyrood elections.

Now, why would Scots (or other Britons) hate Maggie? That feeling is definitely there; I know of many who will dance on her grave when she dies.

The miners strike perhaps? Dismantling of steel and shipbuilding industries? The Poll Tax?

Although I lived through those times, my recollection is not really something to base a decent argument on, so I'll play a bit of Devil's Advocate.

Britain's heavy industry had been moribund for decades; the Empire was gone. We didn't need the capability and a paring down was overdue. It would have happened in any case: Thatcher just gave it a helping hand and whoever had overseen the closures would have been hated.

[1] - http://news.scotsman.com/news/Scots-are-39so-thick39-says.6565095.jp
 
In the process making entire towns unemployed, growing the state she wished to keep small through perpetual benefit handouts.

You can't blame her entirely. She was just aiding and abetting the free market.
 
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Undesired Walrus said:
You can't blame her entirely. She was just aiding and abetting the free market.
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The only way to thwart the free market in this instance that I can think of would be to start taking over foreign lands again, do you know of another way?
 
Long ago, I swore I wouldn't buy any Linn products because of Tiefenbrun's politics. Somehow, I found myself the possessor of an LP12 turntable, a Majik integrated amp, a pair of Toukan speakers, and some speaker cable with the physical characteristics of cold liquorice.

This was actually a bad move and an example of falling for the hype. It chokes me to retire that amp, because I found the receipt when I was checking its instruction manual, and I can't believe what I paid for the damn thing. But I've got a far better Arcam amp now (it was a budget Arcam amp I retired to get the Majik, God I was gullible). The speaker cables are in the bin. I've still got the Toukans and the LP12 and they'll probably stay (the latter definitely), but I think it's an audiophile con. So Tiefenbrun is a con in more ways than one, really.

Some of the claims for that amp were bordering on the woo, if not actually woo. Discussed in another thread here.

Con-man indeed.

Rolfe.
 
WildCat said:
The only way to thwart the free market in this instance that I can think of would be to start taking over foreign lands again, do you know of another way?
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Sure deflate your currency and practice targeted protectionism. Getting thrown out of the EU would rather have negated any gains made mind.
 
I'm assured by those who claim to know that Linn make good stuff. My 26 year old Pioneer amp seem adequate for my 55 year old ears.

I think Thatcher , like all politicians, was a seriously mixed blessing. The Poll tax saved me 40% on my rates bill, so I wasn't moaning. As for Coalmining , steelmaking and shipbuilding, I think geography, growth of foreign ( and often illicitly state supported) competition, the innately conservative (small "c") workforce and management are directly to blame for the demise of all three. Thatcher provided the coup de grace.
As a result, the death rates in Scotland's heavy industry plummeted beyond anything the H&S at work Act could have achieved and our rivers and coastline are nearly as clean as they were in 1710. Thatcher was the greenest PM we ever had. Did she set out to be? Probably not. Did she set out to alienate Scotland? Probably not.

I'm one of the few Scots who will admit to voting Tory during the Thatcher years. Ironically, I haven't done so since.
What I can never understand about Scottish Socialism is the apparent desperate desire to stay in the 1930s. The place was a stinking, polluted deathtrap, where people lived in tenements and scraped a damned poor living in industries that killed them. I feel no nostalgia for that whatsoever.
 
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Soapy Sam said:
I'm assured by those who claim to know that Linn make good stuff. My 26 year old Pioneer amp seem adequate for my 55 year old ears.

I think Thatcher , like all politicians, was a seriously mixed blessing. The Poll tax saved me 40% on my rates bill, so I wasn't moaning. As for Coalmining , steelmaking and shipbuilding, I think geography, growth of foreign ( and often illicitly state supported) competition, the innately conservative (small "c") workforce and management are directly to blame for the demise of all three. Thatcher provided the coup de grace.
As a result, the death rates in Scotland's heavy industry plummeted beyond anything the H&S at work Act could have achieved and our rivers and coastline are nearly as clean as they were in 1710. Thatcher was the greenest PM we ever had. Did she set out to be? Probably not. Did she set out to alienate Scotland? Probably not.

I'm one of the few Scots who will admit to voting Tory during the Thatcher years. Ironically, I haven't done so since.
What I can never understand about Scottish Socialism is the apparent desperate desire to stay in the 1930s. The place was a stinking, polluted deathtrap, where people lived in tenements and scraped a damned poor living in industries that killed them. I feel no nostalgia for that whatsoever.
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I don't know if there is a desire to return to the 1930s but there is, and should be, a sense of regret that we basically dismantled our industrial base and no longer manufacture anything of great note.

We were sold the idea that making things is dirty and dangerous and only really for the poor and those with darker skin tones than ourselves. Now we find ourselves lifting our skirts to American, German, Spanish, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Indian, etc etc etc companies in the hope of being thrown the scraps of a few assembly jobs and wonder why we churn out reams and reams of floppy haired media studies graduates who can't wire a plug.
 
To answer WildCat's question, I'll admit I don't really have an alternative, just objecting to the social darwinism of that era. I suppose government loans could have kept an enormous amount of trained people working on alternative projects or retraining. It's somewhat practical too, given that the state wouldn't suffer by handing out huge amounts in benefits.
 
Giz said:
Only because those Northerners wouldn't get on a bike and find a job!
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I would say "You must be joking" but having seen you around the politics section something tells me you're at least partly serious.
 
I thought Pioneer were a separate company?

Linn certainly have the reputation. I bought into it. The LP12 sounds good, to be fair, although it's tempermental. For a time it sounded terrible until I got a pro in to balance the tracking head and stylus.

However, I went back to Arcam, and when I mentioned this to my dealer (who deals in a wide variety of brands) he said, ah, yet one more person joining the growing ranks of those pissed-off with Linn.

Yeah, it's partly Tiefenbrun's politics, which I've had an aversion to since the 1980s. But it's also partly hype about "biwiring" and stuff that isn't actually capable of making a difference to the sound in the context it's being recommended, once someone explains the electronics to you.

Rolfe.
 
There is no such thing as Margaret Thatcher. There are only atoms and molecules.
 
Rolfe said:
Long ago, I swore I wouldn't buy any Linn products because of Tiefenbrun's politics. Somehow, I found myself the possessor of an LP12 turntable, a Majik integrated amp, a pair of Toukan speakers, and some speaker cable with the physical characteristics of cold liquorice.
Click to expand...


I'd steer clear of them just on the basis of their spelling.
 
At our primary school it was just left outside until mid-morning. Our bigger problem for several months was frozen milk.

ETA: I'm not sure she stole our milk.
 
Architect said:
At our primary school it was just left outside until mid-morning. Our bigger problem for several months was frozen milk.
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Ours was brought into the classrooms in the morning and only drunk at the first break about 10.30am so it was always lukewarm - blehe. (Yes I was a milk monitor before anyone asks - I've always sought power! :p ) And everyone had to drink it - lactose intolerance hadn't been invented back then.


Architect said:
ETA: I'm not sure she stole our milk.
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Ah blame her anyway.
 
Whilst there is no doubt, I think, that she did a lot of good things to deal with a very bloated public sector and inefficiencies in manufacturing, as well as curbing the excessive power of the unions, I worry about what was effectively the de-industrialisation of our countries and the long-term impact which she had.
 
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