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Roll Call: What do you think happened on 9/11, and why?

Aircraft were hijacked by Arab terrorists and crashed into three buildings, causing significant damage to each. WTC1 and WTC2 were sufficiently weakened by a combination of impact damage and unchecked fire such as to cause catastophic structural failure, which in turn led to major damage to surrounding buildings. Many, many people died.

And that's it. No space rays, no CD, no "pull it".
 
Thanks for the idea, when I get time I will start a new post. It is clear that knowing what took place prior to the attacks on 9/11 that had actually allowed these attacks to take place is important to the American people. What is amazing even to me is that the information is all there, the entire account, in every bitter detail, in US official documents and web sites from the many US government investigations of the attacks on 9/11, although it was like putting back together a huge vase that had fallen down and broken into a thousand pieces.

And what made it even harder at first was the fact that almost all of the government reports, it looks like intentionally, left out important details in critical places so it would be very hard for someone reading just that one report to ever see what had taken place.

You had to aggregate the information from all of these reports and then fill in the missing parts of one report with information from the other reports. Doing this over several thousand pages of government reports was in fact very hard at first. How did you know in fact what was missing and when reports differed, you had to try and figure out what report was correct and what report was wrong.
 
Like I said...

Hey Paloalto,

thanks for pushing me thread!
I think many people might miss your story, when you put it in the "Roll call", because they might not be interested in the roll call (any longer).

Why don't you open a new thread, give it a crisp title, and write an inviting opening post (OP)? :)
That way, you would encourage actual discussion,. which is strongly discourage in my thread ;)

You act just like CIA/FBI: You have the information, but, out of lazyness or incompetence, chose not to use it to fullest effect :p
 
RE: Starting a new thread

Hold on, I will start a new thread, but when I get time next week.
 
I agree with Oystein's account mostly, but I'd like to point out some points of disagreement.

I am certain, but allow residual doubt, that flight 93 crashed because its passengers resisted and violently iterferred, thus making the hijacker-pilot lose control and crash. No shoot-down to be sure.
Sabretooth already refined the part about the pilot losing control, and I agree with him that that was not the case. I'd like to point out that I don't have doubts about the passengers revolt and that that's the why of the pilot's maneuvers.

I also have to add that I am uncertain as for who exactly was the pilot of UA93, as it seems that Saeed al-Ghamdi also had piloting skills, seemed to be in the cabin and his name was mentioned in the CVR transcript. But that's a minor detail.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackings caught FAA and the military units that were on alert to defend the airspace by surprise, that they did everything they could to handle the situation, but were unable to do anything about the 4 planes. The main reasons for this inability were: Too little time; no contingency plans for such situations, resources too thinly spread; inadequate sharing of information between civilian and military agencies due to inadequate or incompatible technology.
Rather than inadequate or incompatible technology, I believe that the inadequate sharing of information was due to the lack of contingency plans or exercises for such a situation. I don't think that technology, or lack thereof, played a significant role in information sharing. But then I might lack some information on that respect, so I'm open to refutation.

I do not believe that anyone in these agencies knew of the plan and consciously decided not to interfere. I allow for the remote possibility that there are nefarious elements in the agencies who might be so inclined.
While I share Oystein's belief that that was not the case, I don't think the opposite possibility is that remote. In other words, my belief is feeble in that respect.

I am certain that the hijackers were a group of 19 or 20 Arabs, mostly from Saudi-Arabia, who were recruited by Al Quaeda, had the blessing of OBL. Among their leaders were KSM and Mohammed Atta. I admit that there is a little wiggle room for doubt, as KSM was abducted in secrecy and tortured. I want to take information presented by secret services with a good grain of salt.
I am certain that there were 19 Muslim hijackers in action that day. I am not certain about the Al Qaeda link (mostly because it's a part that doesn't raise my interest enough as to make an assessment on the credibility of the sources saying so), but I generally believe it to be the case. I share Oystein's concerns on the declarations of KSM.

I am satisfied with the forensic investigations. They were humongous tasks, had do dive deep into unknown territories, and by and large the efforts were carried out honestly, competently and with sufficient thoroughness. With hindsight, some minor weaknesses may be lamented, such as the failure to investigate WTC7 with the same diligence as WTC1 and 2 were. It is my understanding that the debris of the twin towers was investigated more thoroughly, which undoubtfully is due to its containing so many human remains. There is no foul play.
I have to add the note that the investigations were not directed to determine guilt, but to take corrective actions where needed, to prevent such a disaster in future, and I'm very satisfied with the results.

I also have some concerns about the haste with the recycling, which prevented the investigation from being more thorough. If anything, the worst suspicion it raises on me is the attempt to cover up the asbestos content in some elements, and I don't believe that suspicion to hold any water anyway.

As for WTC7, I also recognize that the pieces were not marked as were the ones from WTC1 and WTC2, therefore making their association with location and specific collapse features nearly impossible. I leave room to consider Charlie Thornton's statements that the NIST report whitewashed poor design or construction of either the towers or WTC7, but I suspect more on the latter.

I fully agree with everything not explicitly clarified here.
 
I was based at NAS Whidbey Island on the Morning of Sept 11th.

My Brother Steven was with CDI demolitions of Ohio ten blocks from the WTC on that day.

I believe the events of that day are as was detiled in the 9/11 commission.

I believe this not only from the external volumes of information but from my own experiance in aircraft design, non-destructive inspection, metallurgy and history. I understand the nature of radical islam, the history of radical islam and the history of Osama Bin Laden and his movement. To me, they are an enemy equal to the Japanese in the Pacific War....ruthless, brutal and heartless.

I believe, and please don't be upset with me saying so, that Al Queda carried out the most masterful and artfull military assault in history. More audacious and bold than the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Al Queda exploited America's weakness, which had been growing with the aid of the liberal, leftist Democrat movement since the end of Vietnam. They exploited this weakness with great discipline and military precission.

In Al Queda and radical fascist Islam, we face an enemy on par in zeal to the Japanese. To defeat him, we must both respect him and hate him with blood thursty intent, otherwise we face defeat.

To think otherwise, to find excuses, make up myths and support conspiracy theories to only advance an agenda hurtfull and destructive to the safety and survival of the United States is to be a partner in treason.
 
I was based at NAS Whidbey Island on the Morning of Sept 11th.

My Brother Steven was with CDI demolitions of Ohio ten blocks from the WTC on that day.

I believe the events of that day are as was detiled in the 9/11 commission.

I believe this not only from the external volumes of information but from my own experiance in aircraft design, non-destructive inspection, metallurgy and history. I understand the nature of radical islam, the history of radical islam and the history of Osama Bin Laden and his movement. To me, they are an enemy equal to the Japanese in the Pacific War....ruthless, brutal and heartless.

I believe, and please don't be upset with me saying so, that Al Queda carried out the most masterful and artfull military assault in history. More audacious and bold than the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Al Queda exploited America's weakness, which had been growing with the aid of the liberal, leftist Democrat movement since the end of Vietnam. They exploited this weakness with great discipline and military precission.

In Al Queda and radical fascist Islam, we face an enemy on par in zeal to the Japanese. To defeat him, we must both respect him and hate him with blood thursty intent, otherwise we face defeat.

To think otherwise, to find excuses, make up myths and support conspiracy theories to only advance an agenda hurtfull and destructive to the safety and survival of the United States is to be a partner in treason.

Great post!
 
Hi, I think the Islamic insurgency planned and executed the attack in an attempt to get the USA to retreat back into isolationist polices and thus open the door so they could wage war against the Islamic regimes supported by the USA. Israel is a red herring they use to recruit. They do not give a hoot about our way of life other then where they believe it is being adopted inside countries they consider to be Islamic.
Whether or not they harbor ambition toward global conquest remains to be seen. (no top leader of the Insurgency has ever stated this as a goal Wacko Islamics living in the West sometimes voice this rhetoric but they have no connection. (otherwise they would be locked up) It's just how they sell their books and videos.
Damage from impacts and fires destroyed the buildings. There was no warning that could have prevented the attacks once the perpetrators were within the USA.
GW Bush had an adgenda prior to 9-11-2001 that did not include a Global War or any military action outside the USA. But like all of us he had to learn "Life is all the things you end up doing when you are really trying to do something else"
 
Hijackers flew planes into buildings.
Building collapsed, no controlled demolition.
Building 7 collapsed because of fires.
Plane wasn't intercepted.
Sit on the fence about "they let it happen" purely through having not looked into it in depth yet.
 
Osama bin Laden is the leader of al-Qaeda, a loose affiliation of people of Arab origin who believe that American influence in the Middle East is oppressive and unjust, and favour armed resistance to attempt to force the USA to withdraw from the region entirely. He approved an operation masterminded by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to carry out multiple attacks on the USA by hijacking airliners, taking control of them and deliberately crashing them into prominent public buildings.

The operation was led by Mohammed Atta, and an initial list was pared down to three main targets: the World Trade Centre, symbolising American financial power; the Pentagon, symbolising American military power; and the Capitol, symbolising American political power. Two groups were detailed to attack the twin towers of the WTC, and one each the Pentagon and Capitol. Although US intelligence agencies received some warning of the attacks, their lack of specificity combined with inter-service rivalries and a lack of focus on counter-terrorism by the Bush administration to result in an absence of effective prevention. The four al-Qaeda groups successfully took control of four airliners in succession, and a defence system reduced to only four fighters at immediate readiness controlled by a military radar system focused on offshore threats was so hampered by equipment and operational procedures that no interception, even if technically possible, was ever operationally feasible.

Three of the airliners struck their targets, WTC1 and 2 and the Pentagon. The passengers aboard the fourth mounted an attack on the cockpit while the airliner was still far from the Capitol, and this group of hijackers, fearing that the passengers would eventually regain control, chose to crash the airliner deliberately rather than allow them to storm the cockpit. This may have been exascerbated by the fact that this group comprised only four, rather than five, hijackers, leaving them with less manpower with which to restrain the passengers.

Damage to the Pentagon resulted in the collapse of a large section of the building shortly after the airliner impact. At the WTC, jet fuel from the airliners acted as an accelerant to large unfought fires which progressively weakened and distorted the structure of WTC1 and WTC2 until both buildings collapsed, seriously damaging all the nearby buildings and setting WTC7 on fire. Later in the day, WTC7 also collapsed as a result of structural damage and distortion caused primarily by unfought fires.

Following the attacks, the largest operation in FBI history succeeded in determining the identities, movements and motivations of the attackers in great detail; however, the Bush administration was initially unwilling to allow a public investigation into the response to the attacks, fearing accusations of incompetence might be substantiated by the results of such an investigation. After more than a year, however, they were pressured into allowing an investigation to be carried out, which, despite underfunding and some difficulties with obtaining honest testimony - possibly again due to fears of accusations of incompetence - was able to compile a thorough and reasonably accurate account of the planning, execution, and response to, the attacks. A small number of individuals refuse to accept even the gross details of this account, but when analysed more closely this refusal is found inevitably to be based on prejudice, misinformation, desire for personal gain or notoriety, or a combination of the three.

Dave
 
The wee people conspiracy theory.

Since noone has been able to prove it wasn't leprechauns, and since noone will even discuss the possibility of leprechauns, which not only proves there is a massive cover up in play but also that it absolutely must have been leprechauns!

When are you all going to accept the "T"ruth about the leprechauns causing 911??? No doubt you've all been indoctrinated with Lucky Charm commercials and wish to remain alseep and enslaved because you can't even conceive that leprechauns would ever do you wrong...

:p
 
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Excellent summary, Dave Rogers! Worthy of a nomination.

I wish those here that are unconvinced of Dave's version would have both the courage and the clarity of thought to express their beliefs comprehensively.
I am talking about Derek Johnson of course, and Tony Szamboti, RedIbis, Childlike Empress, Femr2, MirageMemories, Java Man and some others. I really would love to hear their story, as I don't know it, and feel they would help the overall discussion along greatly if we were able to judge their individual claims, assertions, assumptions and ideas against the background of a guiding theory.
 
Dave Rogers,

Well said. Should we ever meet I shall purchase you a beer/Coke/water/tea/vanilla non-fat caffeine-free frapuchino delux with free scone/whatever you like to drink.
 
Lots of things happened on 9/11. For instance:

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11

Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Please do not post lengthy tracts from other sources; instead, just post a short snippet and a link to source for the complete article/tract/etc.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL
 
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Excellent summary, Dave Rogers! Worthy of a nomination.

I wish those here that are unconvinced of Dave's version would have both the courage and the clarity of thought to express their beliefs comprehensively.
I am talking about Derek Johnson of course, and Tony Szamboti, RedIbis, Childlike Empress, Femr2, MirageMemories, Java Man and some others. I really would love to hear their story, as I don't know it, and feel they would help the overall discussion along greatly if we were able to judge their individual claims, assertions, assumptions and ideas against the background of a guiding theory.
Their silence is deafening. It seems to me that they only have an idea of what did NOT happen, instead of what DID happen.
 
Several posts have been moved to AAH for being off-topic; please make sure you posts address the OP.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar
 

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