If this was all we knew and all we had to decide I would agree with you.
However the Massei story is an attempt to explain away a patent absurdity, that there was no food in Meredith's duodenum yet Massei has her alive until 23:30.
As Ronchi was well aware, the only way this can be explained within the bounds of known science is if Dr. Lalli accidentally and unknowingly squeezed all the food in Meredith's duodenum down the ~5m length of her bowel to the very end of her small intestine in the process of botching the autopsy.
This would take considerable effort, because the bowel is an elastic tube rather than a rigid, garden-hose like organ. However if even "imperfectly tied" ligatures were also obstructing the bowel the idea that Dr Lalli accidentally squeezed all the digested matter through those obstructions as well becomes an absurdity on an absurdity.
If it happened that way, then Dr Lalli deserves the Million Dollar Prize for proving that the pizza Meredith ate was actually the reincarnation of Harry Houdini.
K-Lo,
I could rebut all this, but since Lex Rex did such a great job of it on PMF, I'll just repost his/her response here (I don't think he/she will mind):
LexRex on PMF said:
WARNING: Autopsy discussed below.
Okay. That's it. I can't stand it anymore. I'm going to vent, ask my questions, then endeavor to never mention JREF again. Please forgive me.
As many of you know, "Tex" (to use stilicho's term of endearment) has made a point of boasting about his alleged "scientific literacy" and his strict adherence to the notion that each premise of an argument must be supported by a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
And now I read THIS gem:
"...the only way this can be explained within the bounds of known science is if Dr. Lalli accidentally and unknowingly squeezed all the food in ...[the] duodenum down the ~5m length of ...[the] bowel to the very end of ...[the] small intestine in the process of botching the autopsy.
This would take considerable effort, because the bowel is an elastic tube rather than a rigid, garden-hose like organ. However if even "imperfectly tied" ligatures were also obstructing the bowel the idea that Dr Lalli accidentally squeezed all the digested matter through those obstructions as well becomes an absurdity on an absurdity. [emphasis added]"
Now, how can one claim to know how much "effort" is required, or describe the "elastic[ity,]" unless they are not only a medical doctor, but a medical doctor that has attempted to "squeeze...digested matter" down the length of someone's intestine both with, and without, ligatures?
Tex [his/her nickname for you, K-Lo] has NOT cited a peer-reviewed scientific journal in support of these claims.
In light of his unwavering insistence on this practice, we can only conclude that his claims required no such support from the literature because they were supported by his own training and expertise as a medical doctor with a sub-specialization in forensic pathology.
Either that or he's a flaming hypocrite.
Now, if I assume that he's not just another rank amateur (and that's an exceedingly difficult assumption to make), is there a medical expert here that can explain:
1) why Tex is insisting that "the ONLY way" is to push digested matter "TO THE VERY END" (Why must it be the very end?);
2) whether there is variation in the kinds or qualities of ligatures used from lab to lab, doctor to doctor;
3) whether there is a 'standard practice' for tying ligatures;
4) whether it is unusual for ligatures to fail;
5) whether it really is difficult for digested matter to be inadvertently moved along with, or without, the application of force; &
6) whether it is necessary to see a video recording of the autopsy in order to properly address the issues raised in respect of the ligatures?
Thanks.
Thanks in advance for answering all these questions, K-Lo.
And I'll just reiterate for myself that, unless you are a pathologist or have support in the medical literature for your assertions, there's no evidence for what you've said.
There's also the possibility that Meredith ate her one piece of pizza at 5:30 (Amy Frost testimony) and it was already into and through her duodenum by the time she ate the apple pie + ice cream at 8:15 or 8:30 pm. Many of the pathologists at the trial said that food can completely clear the stomach in 2-4 hours, which would be in that time-frame.
So the 500 mL (about 2 cups) in her stomach at death (in this case) was just apple crumble and ice cream.
------
And my "final word" to K-Lo and Lo-J and all the others who may believe this TOD due to stomach contents is this "clincher" to this case:
If this were such an important piece of evidence, why was it not raised at trial? Why would no defense pathologist swear that TOD was before 9:30 as you claim to have "proven"?
Were the defense pathologists stupid? Were they incompetent? You have to pick one or the other!
-------
And one more thing: Even if somehow you could prove, contra all pathologists' pronouncements that stomach contents can't be used to prove time of death, and contra all the books I've read (including one called Time of Death that I'm reading now), and contra all pathologists at the trial (even the defense pathologists), that Meredith died by 9:30 pm, it still wouldn't amount to a hill of beans (to coin a phrase).... because....
They only have a (very weak) alibi til 9:10 pm. (No K-Lo, the 9:26 time was brought up and dismissed at trial, and until a trial adjudicates otherwise, it is not valid.)
The walk from Raff's to Amanda's house was only about 5-10 minutes. They go to the cottage, find Rudy outside (as he testified he was there then), they go in together and murder Meredith.
There is no way past the DNA evidence. That proves them guilty as well as Rudy. It really doesn't matter what time of death you assert as long as it's after 9:15.
Thanks for playing, though!
