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Showdown in Washington, D.C.

BeAChooser said:
I also find it interesting that when Beck made his *numbers* claim and someone brought it to this thread, a dozen JREFers or more … including you … came out of the woodwork to criticize. But now, these same JREFers don't seem at all concerned about the fact that One Nation made equally outlandish (percentage error-wise) claims of crowd size. Do I detect a double standard? At JREF? Nah, couldn't be. ;)
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Will all the JREF posters in this thread who called Beck out for inflating the numbers at his rally please step forward to call the ONR out for inflating the numbers at their rally? I know CBS wasn't available to hire a balloon company to provide crowd estimates, but surely a comparison in the photos will help you with your figuring.

1sm213sharepopcorn.gif
 
BeAChooser said:
No, you didn't properly sum up "everything".

I also noted that the One Nation rally drew a much higher proportion of socialists and communists. I personally think that significant.
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I also find it interesting that when Beck made his *numbers* claim and someone brought it to this thread, a dozen JREFers or more … including you … came out of the woodwork to criticize. But now, these same JREFers don't seem at all concerned about the fact that One Nation made equally outlandish (percentage error-wise) claims of crowd size. Do I detect a double standard? At JREF? Nah, couldn't be. ;)
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I do hope you are not counting me in your list of people with a double standard. My exact words were "Beck dishonestly overestimAted the size of his crowd" and "One Nation dishonestly overestimated the size of their crowd." There is no rational way to describe that as a double standard.
 
Cicero said:
Will all the JREF posters in this thread who called Beck out for inflating the numbers at his rally please step forward to call the ONR out for inflating the numbers at their rally? I know CBS wasn't available to hire a balloon company to provide crowd estimates, but surely a comparison in the photos will help you with your figuring.

[qimg]http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm213sharepopcorn.gif[/qimg]
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They may not be reading this thread anymore. If this is a strong issue for you, you could start a new thread to call out those people. You could also send PMs to those people asking to them to respond in this thread to the points that you and BAC are making.
 
BeAChooser said:
I also noted that the One Nation rally drew a much higher proportion of socialists and communists. I personally think that significant.
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Beck invited his listeners to come out to restore honor to America and help turn America back to God. One Nation (a self-defined liberal/progressive group) invited its supporters to march "in support of immigration and education reform, and job programs." I see no real significance in more more communists and socialist being drawn to a rally to dramatically increase federally-funded social programs than being drawn to a rally to "celebrate America by honoring our heroes, our heritage and our future."
 
Cicero said:
Will all the JREF posters in this thread who called Beck out for inflating the numbers at his rally please step forward to call the ONR out for inflating the numbers at their rally? I know CBS wasn't available to hire a balloon company to provide crowd estimates, but surely a comparison in the photos will help you with your figuring.
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When the rightwingwhackos started trying to say that Vapo-boy out-drew the inauguration, that could not be allowed to stand.

There is, however, one important fact that is not dependent on numbers.

The rally was not a flop or a joke like Vapo-boy's anti-1st Ammendment farce.
 
Ladewig said:
My exact words were "Beck dishonestly overestimAted the size of his crowd" and "One Nation dishonestly overestimated the size of their crowd."
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Of course not. I'm just trying to make sure you don't misunderstand what I said with regard to the One Nation rally. Or my intent in posting about it.
 
Ladewig said:
I see no real significance in more more communists and socialist being drawn to a rally to dramatically increase federally-funded social programs than being drawn to a rally to "celebrate America by honoring our heroes, our heritage and our future."
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Other than one consisted primarily of Obama's supporters and one didn't. Guess which? :cool:
 
BeAChooser said:
Other than one consisted primarily of Obama's supporters and one didn't. Guess which? :cool:
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What you say is probably true but there is no tangible evidence for it. The reason the One nation folks were holding the rally was to say that Obama's policies do not go far enough to the left - they are disatisfied with his current positions. Therefore it is possible that the people supporting Obama at the rally were outnumbered by the people disatisfied with Obama.

Furthermore, Beck's rally was held at the same time as a MLK rememberance rally. The communists and socialists were probably at that rally (given that MLK had very strong views on how large America's social programs should be) so they couldn't attend Beck's rally.
 
Ladewig said:
The reason the One nation folks were holding the rally was to say that Obama's policies do not go far enough to the left - they are disatisfied with his current positions.
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But that doesn't mean they aren't Obama supporters. And you are wrong. The purpose wasn't so much to say they are disatisfied with Obama's current policies, that they don't go far enough, but to try an keep what Obama accomplished (if you chose to use that word) intact against what they see going to happen in November. To get democrats to go vote so that democrats retain control. Here:

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/10/whats-behind-the-one-nation-rally/

the rally’s singular purpose was to increase the popular vote for Democratic candidates in the November 2 Congressional election and local offices, not to build an independent liberal/progressive/left coalition to agitate for needed programs that go beyond the limited possibilities of the Obama Administration’s center/center right political agenda.

… snip …

not one of the speakers criticized the Obama Administration’s failure to seriously embrace many such programs or to mount the political fight required to attain even watered down versions, blaming everything on “The Party of No.”
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Here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/28/AR2010092801263.html

Their goal is to reclaim the excitement that surged among left-leaning groups after the 2008 presidential race but that more recently has belonged to tea party groups and other conservative activists.
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Also, the rally was intend to be a direction challenge to the Tea Party and Glenn Beck movements. To show "progressives" outnumber those efforts. From the above link:

One Nation's organizers, hoping to compete with the tea party movement ... snip ...

"We aren't the alternative to the tea party; we are the antidote," said NAACP President Benjamin Jealous, who is also a lead organizer.
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See?

Ladewig said:
Furthermore, Beck's rally was held at the same time as a MLK rememberance rally. The communists and socialists were probably at that rally (given that MLK had very strong views on how large America's social programs should be) so they couldn't attend Beck's rally.
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Very funny joke. But unfortunately some people around here will believe you were serious.

What's truly surprising is that the One Nation organizers (many of Obama's core supporting organizations, like SEIU) had no problem letting communist openly join and support the effort. And that says a lot.
 
leftysergeant said:
There is, however, one important fact that is not dependent on numbers.

The rally was not a flop or a joke like Vapo-boy's anti-1st Ammendment farce.
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How did you reach this mystifying conclusion? Even CBS, who felt compelled to get an accurate accounting on the crowd number at Beck's rally, but not the ONR, failed to mention that Beck's rally was "anti 1st Amendment." How could exercising one's 1st Amendment right constitute being anti-1st Amendment? In fact, both Beck and the Slim-Fast Al simultaneously exercised their 1st Amendment rights without any problems.
 
Newsbusters editorial said:
Astroturfing when committed by conservatives -- as contemptible as it gets, according to liberals.

Astroturfing when committed by liberals -- problem, what problem?
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Shouldn't that be:

Astroturfing to get a candidate elected -- very bad

Astroturfing to get people to attend an event run by professional comedians -- hel-LO. Think, McFly, it's a joke and not a real political rally. They are not endorsing a candidate or taking a side on a contentious political issue. The goal of the rally is to get people from both side to stop using the name Hitler to describe the other side.
 
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BeAChooser said:
Very funny joke. But unfortunately some people around here will believe you were serious.
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I wasn't joking. If we are going to seriously discuss the number of socialists attending rallies in D.C., then my comment is relevant to the discussion. I agree with your assertion: socialists are FAR less likely to attend a rally organized by a Fox News personality than a rally organized by a socialist organization.

What's truly surprising is that the One Nation organizers (many of Obama's core supporting organizations, like SEIU) had no problem letting communist openly join and support the effort. And that says a lot.
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Truly surprising?! One Nation is an organization that openly states on their website that the Obama administration is nowhere close to being socialistic enough for their tastes. How could anyone be surprised that they let communists openly join and support their effort?


ETA:

BeAChooser said:
But that doesn't mean they aren't Obama supporters. And you are wrong. The purpose wasn't so much to say they are disatisfied with Obama's current policies, that they don't go far enough, but to try an keep what Obama accomplished (if you chose to use that word) intact against what they see going to happen in November. To get democrats to go vote so that democrats retain control.
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They are an extreme left-wing socialist organization who believe that they have a better chance of getting their agenda passed under Obama and the Democrats than under Republicans. They want the Democrats in power for the same reason that extreme right-wing groups want Republicans in power. In neither case does that mean the Democratic leadership or the Republican leadership is extremist.
 
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Ladewig said:
Shouldn't that be:

Astroturfing to get a candidate elected -- very bad

Astroturfing to get people to attend an event run by professional comedians -- hel-LO. Think, McFly, it's a joke and not a real political rally. They are not endorsing a candidate or taking a side on a contentious political issue. The goal of the rally is to get people from both side to stop using the name Hitler to describe the other side.
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You honestly think that if and when the rally draws more people than Beck the media will not paint it as a democratic victory? Both these comedians are democratic activists, Stewart is sometimes nonpartisan but Colbert is an extremely partisan democrat.
 
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Infoexcavator said:
You honestly think that if and when the rally draws more people than Beck the media will not paint it as a democratic victory? Both these comedians are democratic activists, Stewart is sometimes nonpartisan but Colbert is an extremely partisan democrat.
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I never imagined that the media would portray it as a Democratic rally. Is that really what will happen?


ETA: did the media portray Beck's self-defined non-partisan rally as Republican?
 
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Infoexcavator said:
Not sure if serious.

It was a tea party/republican rally and that is exactly how it was portrayed.
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From Glenn Beck's press release: http://media.glennbeck.com/828/828kit.pdf

The Restoring Honor Rally is a non-political and non-partisan event. All proceeds will go to the 501 (c)3 charity The Special Operations Warrior Foundation (SOWF).

[snip]

2) Is this a 9/12 or Tea Party rally?
No. The Restoring Honor Rally is neither a 9/12 nor a Tea Party rally. There will be absolutely no politics involved. This rally will honor the troops, unite the American people under the principles of integrity and truth, and make a pledge to restore honor within ourselves and our country

[snip]

Please refrain from bringing signs (political or otherwise) as they may deter from the peaceful message we are bringing to Washington.
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Were there newspaper articles describing it as a Republican rally?
 
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